Hanna Tetteh | Lighting Libya’s long path to peace (S13-E2)

 

 

 

[00:00:00] Melissa Fleming

When you work in places torn apart by conflict, keeping positive isn't just a comfort. It becomes a necessity. 

 

[00:00:08] Hanna Tetteh

I have to be optimistic. Otherwise I'll stop. And I think that when you're doing this kind of job, you have to keep yourself optimistic. You always have to find openings and entry points and try to see what you can work with and where you can create some opportunity to have a conversation that results in some concrete outcome. 

 

[00:00:36] Melissa Fleming

Hanna Tetteh is the Special Representative of the Secretary-General for Libya and the Head of the United Nations Support Mission there. From the United Nations, I'm Melissa Fleming. This is Awake at Night. Welcome, Hanna. 

 

[00:01:01] Hanna Tetteh

Thank you very much. 

 

[00:01:02] Melissa Fleming

You've had an extraordinary career as a lawyer, as a government minister in Ghana, and with the United Nations. And we're going to get to all of that soon. But you are working in one of the most challenging countries in the world right now - Libya. What made you decide to go there? 

 

[00:01:25] Hanna Tetteh

Precisely because it was challenging, but also because I knew that the developments in Libya over the last 15 years had influenced the politics and the peace and security dynamics in the Sahel and by extension moving towards coastal African states as well. And I come from a coastal West African state. And I know that we have been impacted in different ways, some more subtle than others. And I felt that if I had the opportunity to work in UNSMIL [United Nations Support Mission in Libya], and if there was the chance to try to move forward a political process that stabilizes Libya, the impact for the rest of the Sahel region and West Africa would be tremendous. And so it was a job worth doing. 

 

[00:02:10] Melissa Fleming

And UNSMIL... Just explain what UNSMIL is. 

 

[00:02:14] Hanna Tetteh

UNSMIL is the United Nations Support Mission in Libya. It's a political mission. It is... To some extent it also has a Chapter 7 mandate, which means that we have some direct influence over the Libyan political process. But of course, as is the case with every UN initiative, we try as much as possible to make sure that it is the country and the citizens themselves who are given leadership and agency. And we use the tools at our disposal only when we have to, when it seems that the situation is deadlocked and there's no other way of proceeding other than engaging the Security Council and then letting them support us to take some actions to move the conversations along. 

So what we've been doing over the last 15 years, we've being trying to support democratic consolidation in Libya. That has been an uneven process. After the overthrow of President Gaddafi, there was initially the anticipation that this might be a relatively smooth transition to a democracy that, you know, had popular support from its people. What I think was not clearly understood at the time were the internal fractures within the society itself, which broke out in conflict between cities and municipalities and different parts of the country. And the unstable security situation also created fertile grounds for terrorism activities to also gain some roots within the country. 

So, moving out of that. Having first a political process that brought into being an initial legislative body. And then later on, the House of Representatives after substantive elections had been held and the Libyan political agreement that finally essentially agreed to have two legislative chambers. And putting in place a government that was initially in control of the entirety of Libya was a step towards facilitating that political consolidation. 

 

 

But because of the internal fractures and also because of the political ambitions of some of the actors, what we've seen over time is that there has been in the east the strengthened influence of the Libyan National Army under Marshal Haftar. And in the west, you have what we call the internationally recognized government of the GNU [Government of National Unity]. Now this current situation, which is where you have the GNU and you have the LNA [Libyan National Army] with significant control in the east, was also a result of a UN-facilitated process, the Libyan Political Dialogue Forum, that established a new government after the conflict that took place in 2020. 

It was anticipated that this time there was going to be a successful election. Unfortunately, it was called off at the last minute because of force majeure. And after that Marshal Haftar withdrew recognition for the Government of National Unity. So you have de facto two authorities, in the east and in the west, running Libya. And that is the political situation in which we are in now. So what we're trying to do as UNSMIL is through a political roadmap that was launched last August, to get the two sides to come back together again and have that long outstanding election so that the country can be unified through a democratic process. 

So there's a government with the legitimacy and authority to undertake other key actions, especially as regards stabilizing the security situation, managing the country's economic resources, making sure that this huge country with its very long borders and where it's challenging internal dynamics as far as climate, peace and security is concerned as well, is better governed and able to use the majority of its resources in the interests of its people. Libya has Africa's largest hydrocarbon deposits. 

 

[00:06:29] Melissa Fleming

I didn't know that. 

 

[00:06:30] Hanna Tetteh

And fourth largest natural gas deposits and a population of about 7.5 million. So there's no reason why this country should be poor. But it is the political divisions which have led to dysfunction that currently have created a situation where we have a poverty rate of about 30%, which is completely unacceptable. It's difficult because other countries also have bilateral interests that they're trying to advance. It's difficult because the key political actors don't necessarily want to give up their power and authority. And in that context, elections themselves are a challenging prospect. But that's what we're mandated to try to achieve. And so we're using our best efforts to advance that process. 

 

[00:07:20] Melissa Fleming

It sounds extremely complex and challenging. And I understand also the situation has led to a very insecure or unstable security situation in Libya. Can you describe that. 

 

[00:07:36] Hanna Tetteh

In the east and south of Libya, the Libyan National Army under Marshal Haftar - which is a very large security outfit and also has alliances with other... I don't want to call them militia or armed groups because effectively they've become components of the national army from other parts of the country - have more or less a stable unified force under one command. 

However, in western Libya that is where you've had the proliferation of armed groups within municipalities. And early in the Libyan transitional process conflicts between different municipalities that were really quite vicious and have left a lot of victims who feel that reconciliation processes and restitution processes haven't been implemented fast enough. And the Government of National Unity does not necessarily have control over all of the armed actors in the west. So it's a more fractured environment, but the majority of the population is in the west. About 70% of Libya's population is in the west. In the east and south, you've got about 30%. 

So again, two different sides of the country, two completely different dynamics. And an internationally recognized government that hasn't focused on establishing a unified military force and therefore is at the mercy of this large group of different forces that they've tried to incorporate in one way or the other in some instances, in the government's security architecture by designating them specific responsibilities. But it's difficult for them to manage. 

 

[00:09:29] Melissa Fleming

How is the safety situation for you in Libya? 

 

[00:09:35] Hanna Tetteh

Well, the threat level is Level 5. 

 

[00:09:38] Melissa Fleming

Which means? 

 

[00:09:39] Hanna Tetteh

Across the entirety of Libya. Extremely high risk. So we live in the UN compound in Tripoli, in an area of Tripoli called Janzour. We have a UN guard unit that protects us. We travel everywhere in bulletproof cars. We make strong preparations when we're leaving the compound to have meetings, to travel across the country, to have meetings with the municipalities and such. But it is my view that you can't understand the country and try to engage in a political process if you don't actually interact with the people. So as difficult and as challenging as it is, we have to use the tools at our disposal to be able to have those interactions so that on an ongoing basis we are refining our process in a way that it responds to those needs. 

 

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[00:10:32] Melissa Fleming

Is it a benefit or a hindrance to be a woman operating in this environment? 

 

[00:10:39] Hanna Tetteh

Well, I think that for many Libyans, when they heard I was the new SRSG [Special Representative of the Secretary-General], they were to say the least completely taken aback. I am African. In their view, Africa is not the same as the Arab world, especially sub-Saharan African. I'm not Muslim. And again, that is just the person that I am. And I don't speak Arabic particularly well, though I've learned a lot more over the last year. I understand a lot more over the past year. 

And I think they were, you know, I would say in a way flummoxed. I mean, what exactly was this woman coming to do in Libya, and how was she going to help us to move this process forward? But I must say that all of the senior interlocutors, when they met me, they were very polite. They were very courteous. When I've asked for meetings, they have obliged. When I have discussions with them, the discussions are not perfunctory. They are substantive. 

They make their positions very, very clear. I always have to have a kind of back and forth, 'Have you thought about? What if? Don't you think it would be more useful if we tried to proceed this way? Don't you see the risks with this particular approach? The way in which we analyze the situation as UNSMIL, this is where we see things are going. Do you have a different perspective? If you agree, then shouldn't we be trying to do things differently?' You know that kind of... 

But I try as much as possible to make sure that all of my engagements are based on a factual analysis. Because if I were to just be fluffy about the issues and not really know what I was talking about, they would lose respect for me very quickly. And I would not be able to engage with them. So I know that when I'm meeting with them, I have to be very well prepared. Because without that I will not be able to get their attention or their cooperation. 

 

[00:12:46] Melissa Fleming

I imagine that Libyan women must also look to you and say, 'This is interesting.' Have you heard any feedback about whether you're serving as an inspiration to Libyan women? 

 

[00:13:05] Hanna Tetteh

So, I think just as was the case with their male colleagues, when they heard I was coming to UNSMIL, to head UNSMIL, they also had their questions. I've met with Libyan women as representatives of women's groups. I've made sure I've had consultations with them. We have an ongoing Structured Dialogue process. We made sure the representation of women was 35%. In the Advisory Committee, we also made sure that their representation was 35%. So we've really done what we can to give them agency. 

But we've always made sure that we have selected women who have competence. Because that's the way in which your male colleagues respect you, right? And in the case of the Structured Dialogue, what we did was that we established what we call a Women’s Caucus. Because we believe that they had as much of a right to contribute their ideas to their country's future as their male colleagues. And so we needed them to step up and to demonstrate that we had not made a wrong decision and that they were going to add value to these discussions. And we... Over the first month, we had a number of meetings of the Caucus to, again, help them to prepare. But since then, I'm happy to report they've been gliding. They've been chairing the sessions. They've being rapporteurs. They've been actively debating on the issues, and I'm very proud of them. 

 

[00:14:31] Melissa Fleming

Are there any in particular who have impressed you? 

 

[00:14:36] Hanna Tetteh

Very many of them. Very many of them. They are well educated. They are competent. They are very perceptive. Their society is very conservative - Sunni Islam. Because of that they're careful about the way in which they express themselves. But even with those, you know, I wouldn't say constraints because that's their cultural context, they have always been able to discuss things in a manner that focused really on the key issues and that were substantive. And so across the different tracks - the economic track, the security track, the governance track, the human rights and reconciliation track - I have been very impressed by the quality of output we've had from them. 

 

[00:15:23] Melissa Fleming

What keeps you awake at night when you think of Libya? 

 

[00:15:28] Hanna Tetteh

The fact that young people don't have the patience to live with this divided situation and with a governance structure that they think does not help them to maximize their opportunities as young people. And precisely because they know the amount of oil wealth that they have and they compare themselves to their peers in the MENA region. And because they look at the United Arab Emirates. They look at Bahrain. They look at Saudi Arabia. All oil producing countries. They look at Oman. And they think, 'If it wasn't for the chaos of 2011, that could be us.' 

And so... And the majority of Libya's population is under 30. So in that context, what scares me... And I don't know whether because this is a very patriarchal society where seniority is respected and acknowledged in the way in which they engage each other. I don't know whether it is the case that some of the more senior Libyan actors don't recognize that this discontent and this lack of economic opportunity is a challenge that they have to address. And they are not going to be able to address it just by building infrastructure, because it's about jobs. It's about better incomes. 

Now, in Libya, almost 80% of the population is on government payroll. And then they have a huge subsidy bill. So another 80% is the amount of money government spends on salaries and wages and subsidies. And oil... Petrol in Libya is... A litre of petrol is cheaper than a litre of water. So oil prices are also very heavily subsidized. So nobody is destitute. 

But on the other hand, you know, entry-level incomes are something around $135, $140 a month. That's not a lot of money. And so when people, again, especially young people, look at their situation and what they consider to be a lack of opportunity. When we engage them through our youth outreach programmes and youth connect and all of that, we see the frustration. 

And I hope that in all of this the leadership recognizes that responding to that frustration is not just construction jobs. Responding to that frustration is creating the stability that attracts investment in the more interesting areas of economic growth and development that gives them the opportunity to use their educational skills and really make something for themselves. That's what worries me. 

 

[00:18:22] Melissa Fleming

I just remember when I was at UNHCR [the UN Refugee Agency] visiting Libya, and that was at the height of Libya being such a migration route and the horrific stories that one would hear of the tragedies on the Mediterranean Sea. Is it still a place where desperate people are landing and finding themselves trapped? 

 

[00:18:46] Hanna Tetteh

Oh absolutely. And human trafficking networks that end up in Libya are across the Sahel. So they're capitalizing on the desperation of people running away from conflict. In the case of Sudan, and previously when there was the conflict in Ethiopia between the federal government of Ethiopia and Tigray. 

And they're also capitalizing on people's economic desperation within the countries of the Sahel especially looking for financial opportunity. And they believe, because many of them think back and have information on Libya dating back to the Gaddafi era, that there are job opportunities. That they can find artisanal jobs when they have the skill sets to do these jobs. And so they'd make a better living than they would make in their own countries. 

And some of them are more ambitious and they want to be able to cross the Mediterranean to go to Europe. And the sad thing is that they're ready to pay money to these traffickers to carry them across the Mediterranean in these very weak, insecure dinghies. And very often they are either returned by the Coast Guard, or because of the EU's anti-migration operations not as many of them are able to cross to get into Europe. Because, of course, migration is providing a significant challenge for Europe as well. But the flow is not stopping. 

And now you've also got people who have fled from conflict in the Gulf and in parts of Asia, Afghanistan. From economic hardships in Southeast Asia, where they believe that they would have better opportunities. Especially from countries like Bangladesh, where they've come as economic migrants. They've actually got visas, flown to Libya, in the belief that they're going to be able to get transportation across the Mediterranean to find job opportunities in Europe. And of course, that is not the case. And when they stay, they are very often detained in places that are horrible. And they are exploited. And they are abused. And it is really a very desperate situation. 

 

[00:21:06] Melissa Fleming

I visited one of those detention centres and it was just awful. I was hoping you were going to tell me that things have gotten better, but it sounds like they've only gotten worse with the rising desperation and the wars. Are you optimistic in general that a solution can be found for Libya? 

 

 

[00:21:27] Hanna Tetteh

I have to be optimistic. Otherwise I'll stop. And I think that when you're doing this kind of job, you have to keep yourself optimistic. You always have to find openings and entry points and try to see what you can work with and where you can create some opportunity to have a conversation that results in some concrete outcome. And if you don't do that, you won't be able to achieve any success whatsoever. Because especially after 15 years of this situation, it is difficult. 

But I think that part of being involved in peace-building work is that you've always got to try and use your best efforts to see what you can do to make a difference. And very often your efforts may not necessarily be very perfect. And someone with hindsight could say, 'Well, you should have done this, that, that or the other.' But to the extent it helps to move things along in a positive way and gets, in the case of Libya, to a point where they have greater democracy and inclusivity, it will be a good thing. 

Over the last year, we have managed to have municipal elections in 114 different municipalities. On a rolling basis, we've had these municipal elections that help to strengthen local governance. For the first time in Libya's history we've had two women elected as mayors. We have women elected, some women elected as municipal councilors in their own right. I mean, it's things like that. When you're able to support institutions to undertake these kinds of things. 

And you see it's part of the process of building democracy from the bottom up that you can take satisfaction in because you know that even though it's not the most perfect outcome, all of this and the practices that will result from being involved in debate about what they're going to spend money on, what they are going to prioritize, how they want to go about it, how they're going to look for funding to be able to undertake these initiatives, will invariably help to create this democratic culture that I think they badly need. 

 

[00:23:42] Melissa Fleming

You're smiling as you tell this story. It sounds like these are the kind of gratifying small steps that keep you going for the bigger picture. 

 

[00:23:50] Hanna Tetteh

Yes. 

 

[00:23:54] Melissa Fleming

I was going to ask if you ever wish you'd chosen an easier posting. 

 

[00:24:00] Hanna Tetteh

In the UN, I don't think there's something called an easier posting. Every posting has its challenges, even if you... And by challenges, I mean difficulties. Even if you accept a role and you think, 'Well, there's not much happening over here. So you know. Yes, you'll be involved in meetings, and you try and see what you can do.' You're always surprised. At least that has been my experience over the last seven years. You're always surprised by the kind of things that get thrown up at you. 

But again in government, my experience was the same. You have a positive trajectory. You're looking at the things that you can get done and someone throws you a curve ball. And you've got to find a way of getting through it. But that's life, so you take it and you work with it as best as you can. 

 

[00:24:50] Melissa Fleming

I think you've had many curveballs thrown at you during your career at the UN, because before you came to Libya, you were UN Special Envoy to the Horn of Africa, which included other conflict-stricken countries like Sudan, South Sudan, and Somalia. When you think about this region, what worries you the most? 

 

[00:25:09] Hanna Tetteh

The Horn of Africa is the part of the continent, which is really on the front lines of the climate crisis. 70% of the land in that region is arid or semi-arid. And these are countries where, for the most part, communities were pastoral. And now where you have rain patterns changing, water bodies drying up, grazing land not being available in the same way. And sometimes you've had periods of drought where their animals have just simply died of starvation and thirst. You have a people whose way of life and ancient patterns of doing things - because this is something they've done from generation to generation - is just being ripped out from under their feet without that many alternatives for them to focus on. 

So the climatic conditions of the Horn of Africa are quite significant, quite difficult. And because of that it's not surprising that they have challenges with inter-communal conflict. And it's also not surprising that in some areas, they have broader conflicts that are as a result of grievances that have been festering for decades that governments have not adequately responded to. And I think that very often when there is stability of some sort, we think everything is fine. And it's not fine. And especially in this particular environment, things are getting harder. 

 

 

[00:26:45] Melissa Fleming

So you do see that direct link between climate change and instability? 

 

[00:26:51] Hanna Tetteh

Yes, you do. During the COVID period, for instance, so one of the things that I noted when I was once in Djibouti. And Djibouti is... Djibouti City, apart from being the capital of Djibouti the country, is also the seat of the Intergovernmental Authority on Development, which is the regional economic community for the Horn of Africa region. 

And as I was driving along the highway that linked Djibouti to Ethiopia with the Resident Coordinator, what struck me was that there were so many people on their feet with just a bottle of water. And he was telling me that these are all people who are trying to migrate to the Gulf. And they literally have nothing but the clothes on their back. And they are trying to cross at Bab-el-Mandeb to see how they can cross that way and then go into the countries of the Gulf and see how they get employment. 

And you know, when you see young people doing that. And again, it's not just one or two people, it's a whole trail of people on the move with a bottle of water in their hands, which they drink from time to time. Not particularly well dressed and just moving. And they just keep moving, right? It gives you a real indication of the sense of desperation that people have, especially young people. 

 

[00:28:16] Melissa Fleming

The war in Sudan grinds on, this horrific war. Do you see any hope on the horizon of solving this conflict? 

 

[00:28:26] Hanna Tetteh

It is going to be really difficult because both sides still believe that they can win. And in that context, no amount of effort to tell them to stop necessarily delivers that outcome. And for as long as they continue to be supported and financed, and they have a regular supply of weaponry, they have no incentive to stop, right? 

So, it's a question of to what extent can the mechanisms within the multilateral system create both the positive incentives but also the negative incentives on countries that are really fueling these conflicts and supporting these conflicts to get them to stop? Because for as long as the arms flow continues, the war will continue until there's a clear winner. 

 

[00:29:20] Melissa Fleming

Until there's a clear winner. We're seeing unfortunately a situation in neighbouring South Sudan where there had been so much hope. And I know you were part of the South Sudan peace process. It seems to be unraveling again. 

 

[00:29:39] Hanna Tetteh

The thing about peace agreements, they don't implement themselves. And very often countries will always have a thousand and one reasons why implementing a particular aspect of a peace agreement... Or let me say governments will have a thousand and one reasons why implementing a particular aspect of a peace agreement is not convenient. And it goes back to using the leverage available to get them to stay on track. But at the same time, holding them accountable for the things that they do. And accountability means that sometimes we should not be hesitating in using the personal sanctions mechanisms. 

 

[00:30:19] Melissa Fleming

What's that? 

 

[00:30:20] Hanna Tetteh

That means that we're not sanctioning the citizens of a country. We're sanctioning a particular individual who we know is instigating this, and we're making it very difficult for them to move around. We're making it difficult for them to engage in the international financial system. We're making it difficult for them to hold money outside of the country. We're making it difficult to hold onto property outside of the country. 

In other words, if you don't find ways of playing ball in a positive manner, whatever benefits you think you've derived from your leverage and from your authority. And from the fact that you have, you know, all of these... I don't want to use soldiers because very often these are not soldiers in the army, these are personal armies, right? So like militias. That you have this authority, and you have the firepower and therefore you can terrorize people, and you can get away with a lot of things. You've got to find ways of holding people like that as individuals accountable such that they do not have the incentive to continue. 

We have the tools. We're not always able to use them evenly. But we have to be able to think about how we do that. In South Sudan, what is the issue? Again, like many other countries where there's oil, they've had a lot of money, but they haven't had the time to build up their institutional systems to be able to manage their oil revenues in a way that allows for effective public financial management. Checks and balances that don't allow people to enrich themselves from government procurement and government financing. 

And because of the weaknesses in the governance system and because there are people who have benefitted tremendously, they don't want to lose those benefits. To the extent that it's not about, ‘How do we have an election?’ It's about, ‘How we make sure that if something happens to the president, we who are from his group are in a position to continue to benefit in the way in which we have done. Because without that we would feel that we have been deprived and we're ready to go to war for it.’ 

 

[00:32:27] Melissa Fleming

It sounds like this is a learning that you've had over the past years on how power works. But I guess you probably knew quite a lot about that because you were a politician in Ghana. And you held several ministerial positions, including Minister of Foreign Affairs. I'm sure that democracy also just became much more important to you. You had already... You've been living and breathing it. What drew you into politics? 

 

 

[00:32:58] Hanna Tetteh

Well, the thing about Ghana is that we had our experience with military governments and coup d'états and with the negative implications of what it was to live under a military government. But when we returned to constitutional rule in 1992, the constitution that was drafted and passed by a referendum had very strong human rights provisions and had protections for the independence of the judiciary. And provided for a strong executive but also provided for an independent legislature. 

And so by creating these checks and balances between the key institutions of government, they created the framework where we were able to build our democracy over time. And for us having elections every four years is normal. Power changing through elections from one political party to another is normal. When you lose an election, you don't think it's the end of the world. You know you live to fight another day. And you focus on building the kind of institutions and the kind country that you can live in whether you are in office or not. 

And I think for many Ghanaian politicians, because we value what we have built and we want to maintain it, irrespective of what side of the political divide you are on, you work towards making sure that that system of democracy continues to exist as a way to build our country, to grow our economy, and to create prosperity for as many Ghanaians as possible. Now, it's by no means a perfect situation. But when you have political contestation in a system with rules, it's different from political contestation in a situation where what you've got are guns. Completely different dynamic. 

 

[00:34:56] Melissa Fleming

Completely. Let's hope that the people of Ghana never take democracy without guns for granted. 

 

[00:35:04] Hanna Tetteh

Yeah, we've been there before in military rule, right? I have known what it was like when I was in my teens to live in a situation where the government could say, 'We have a curfew from 8 p.m. to 6 a.m.' And you didn't go out of your house after 8 p.m. I have known a situation where it was described as having a wall of silence. People were discontented, but they couldn't say anything about it for fear of being personally picked up and for the retribution to be quite harsh. And I think that's the reason why when we had the chance to return to democratic rule and there was a lot of public participation in drafting the constitution, having strong human rights provisions was seen as critical to the development of the constitution. That is what created this civic space that has allowed our democracy to thrive. And that is something we all find very valuable. 

 

[00:36:05] Melissa Fleming

What inspired you to go into politics? 

 

[00:36:08] Hanna Tetteh

I come from a political family. So when I was... From my very, very early years, politics was a regular topic of discussion in my house. My father's family were members of the Convention People's Party, the party of our first president, Osagyefo Dr. Kwame Nkrumah. One of my late uncles was a minister in his government. My father was one of the youth of the party and managed to get a scholarship to travel abroad to study medicine in Hungary, which is where he met my mother. 

And even though we didn't come back to Ghana immediately after they graduated and we went to live in the UK, there was always a number of Ghanaians who were my father's peers, who were in the house. You know, whenever there was a free moment and the topic was always politics and jazz and Pan-Africanism and all of that. So that's what I grew up knowing. When we returned to Ghana, we were still under the military rule. But he felt that it was time to go regardless. And my mother was willing to come along as well. So, you know, both of them packed up and returned to Ghana. 

 

[00:37:23] Melissa Fleming

And your mother's Hungarian. 

 

[00:37:24] Hanna Tetteh

And my mother's Hungarian. 

 

[00:37:27] Melissa Fleming

That must have been a big cultural shift for her. 

 

[00:37:30] Hanna Tetteh

It was. But you know, she was quite sporty about it. She went. And they both worked in the government medical service for a while before they went into private practice and established their own hospital. And so they were very much on the forefront of understanding the challenges in our health sector, and the implications it had for society as a whole. 

And my father didn't lose his political interest. So when we returned to constitutional rule, he didn't want to go into politics himself because he was of the view that he had established this hospital. You know, he was contributing in different ways. But kept encouraging me to do it. And that's how I got interested in actually contesting for election. And that's how come I contested to become a member of parliament and won at the age of 33. And at that time, I was the youngest woman in our parliament. And the rest is history. 

 

[00:38:32] Melissa Fleming

Well, I understand your sisters are also in politics. 

 

[00:38:35] Hanna Tetteh

My younger sister is now member of parliament for our constituency. So she succeeded me. And she also happens to be the Deputy Minister for Works and Housing. 

 

[00:38:46] Melissa Fleming

I read that you actually speak some Hungarian. 

 

[00:38:49] Hanna Tetteh

[Speaking Hungarian]

 

[00:38:52] Melissa Fleming

It is supposed to be the most difficult language on earth. Your mother spoke it to you? 

 

[00:38:57] Hanna Tetteh

Because I was born in Hungary, it's the first language I learnt. [Speaking Hungarian], which means I was born in Hungary. [Speaking Hungarian]. When I was two half, we went to England. [Speaking Hungarian]. We lived in the UK for about 5–6 years, and after that we returned to Ghana.

 

[00:39:28] Melissa Fleming

But there was a tradition with the East European countries that they offered scholarships to Africans. 

 

[00:39:37] Hanna Tetteh

Yes. 

 

[00:39:38] Melissa Fleming

Is that how your father came about going there? 

 

 

[00:39:41] Hanna Tetteh

Yes. 

 

[00:39:41] Melissa Fleming

Interesting. Has it ever been complicated for you in any way to have this dual nationality, including in running for office in Ghana? 

 

[00:39:54] Hanna Tetteh

Well, in Ghana you're not allowed to have dual nationality and run for office. So I have been a Ghanaian citizen, but I have Hungarian heritage. 

 

[00:40:03] Melissa Fleming

I see. 

 

[00:40:03] Hanna Tetteh

I think when you grow up with two cultures, it's not complicated because it's an integral part of your life. My mother does things in a certain way. My father does things in a certain way. The two of them were ready to make accommodation for each other in order that they could continue to live together. And they were together till death did them part. 

 

[00:40:26] Melissa Fleming

Are you an optimistic person? 

 

[00:40:29] Hanna Tetteh

Not always. I mean, I have my days when I really wonder, 'Am I doing the right thing?' But I'm a very logical person, so I tend to think things through. And whenever I think that there is an opening or there's an opportunity, I look to see whether I can take advantage of it to be able to further the work that I'm trying to do. So, blindly optimistic, definitely not. Committed when I decide to do something, yes. And then I try to give it my full attention. 

 

[00:41:05] Melissa Fleming

Some people say that the UN has failed in the peace and security dimension. What would you say to them? 

 

[00:41:15] Hanna Tetteh

Well, I would say that it's not just about the UN. In any country context where there are bilateral interests that also try to engage with the actors in a conflict in such a way that they give them more agency or they enable them to act in a certain way. When you work with the UN and you are working with a very norms-based framework, you don't have the opportunity to be as opportunistic. And so there are certain things you can't do because it is completely against the kind of norms-based peace-building effort that we try to implement. 

But having said that, what I think you need to do is to try and have a good relationship and engage with as many of these Member-State bilateral actors as possible to understand what their motivations are and where it is possible to influence them to do so. It's not easy. None of this is a piece of cake. You sometimes get blowback, which is very harsh. But once you sign up for something, for as long as you decide that you're going to do it, I think you have to give it your best effort. 

 

[00:42:31] Melissa Fleming

What do you think the qualities that go into peace building are that are most effective? 

 

[00:42:38] Hanna Tetteh

Patience. Patience. A high level of tolerance for rubbish. And I say that as bluntly as that, but I think politics, especially being a member of parliament, was great training. Because when you are elected by people, I mean, no matter how humble they are, their view is you are in that position because we voted for you. ‘So you owe me. And wherever you are, when I decide to come and look for you and I say that I have a problem, you have an obligation to listen to me.’ 

And of course, you can't say no to that, right? Because you went out campaigning and you said, ‘Please vote for me, and if you do, I will try to do ABCDE.’ So you have to. And sometimes they're very nice and polite. Sometimes they are incredibly rude. Sometimes you're like, 'I mean, how do you think this is something I am supposed to address?' But in all instances, you have to put on your good face, and you have to listen and deal with it. And that's why I think that being a member of parliament was excellent training for peacebuilding. 

 

[00:43:43] Melissa Fleming

It seems so. It looks like you have patience in abundance. What are you hopeful for? 

 

[00:43:50] Hanna Tetteh

If we could have, in Libya, move beyond these municipal elections and have another set of elections. Even if it's not a presidential election. But it could be a legislative election and refresh a legislature that has been in office since 2014, right? Twelve years is a very long time to be in office without accountability. And therefore we gave people in Libya the hope that actually there was the possibility of democratic renewal. And you got new enthusiasm into this process and people who are ready to look at things differently and who are not as skeptical and set in their ways. 

I think that working with their own leaders, they would find ways of getting beyond the next obstacle, which is creating the conditions for unification of the security forces. Using their resources in a much more beneficial way for the majority of the population. And creating an environment that allowed much more investment into the oil and gas sector and into the downstream oil and gas sector so that it would be a country with huge opportunity. I mean if we could begin that process and advance it to a point. After all nobody does everything. But if you can advance it to a certain stage, someone else can come and pick up from where you left off and build on it, that would be a good thing. 

 

[00:45:16] Melissa Fleming

I have no doubt you'll bring them to that point, Hanna. Thank you so much.  

 

 

[00:45:20] Hanna Tetteh

You're very welcome. Thank you very much. 

 

[00:45:25] Melissa Fleming

Thank you for listening to Awake at Night. We'll be back soon with more incredible and inspiring stories from people working against huge challenges to make this world a better and safer place.

To find out more about the series and the extraordinary people featured, do visit un.org/awake-at-night. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and please take the time to review us. It helps more people to find the show. 

Thanks to my editor Bethany Bell and to my colleagues at the UN: Katerina Kitidi, Roberta Politi, Geneva Damayanti, Abby Vardeleon, Alison Corbet, Laura Rodriguez de Castro, Eric Balgley, Jason Candler, Benji Candelario, Anzhelika Devis, Tulin Battikhi, Bissera Kostova, Brianna Rowe, Joon Park, and Taeyoung Lee. The original music for this podcast was written and performed by Nadine Shah and produced by Ben Hillier.