Corinne Momal-Vanian | The UN is my life, my family (S13-E11)

 

 

 

[00:00:01] Melissa Fleming

My guest this week dedicated more than 30 years of her life to the UN. She told me it's all about the values.

 

[00:00:09] Corinne Momal-Vanian

It's really putting the human dignity at the centre. That every human being deserves to live a fulfilling life and life in dignity, that's also at the heart of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and those are truly universal aspirations.

 

[00:00:36] Melissa Fleming

Corinne Momal-Vanian is the outgoing Director of the Kofi Annan Foundation. From the United Nations, I'm Melissa Fleming. This is Awake at Night. It's great to have you here, Corinne.

 

[00:00:59] Corinne Momal-Vanian

Good afternoon, Melissa.

 

[00:01:00] Melissa Fleming

You've been in this position since 2020, and we're going to get into that soon. But I'd like to begin by asking you about your career at the United Nations. And this career spanned more than 30 years. You worked with three different Secretary-Generals, including, of course, Kofi Annan. And your career began in an unusual place - Baghdad. A long way from your home country - France. How did that come about?

 

[00:01:30] Corinne Momal-Vanian

I passed an examination, national competitive examination that was open for young French professionals that year, and I was lucky enough to be selected. I had some Arabic because I grew up partly in the Middle East. I was very familiar with the region. There was a big regional economic commission based in Baghdad, the Economic Commission for Western Asia that is now in Beirut. But in those days, it was in Baghdad. And I was selected for a position there. I was 23 years old. Just left Paris with my two suitcases and off to Baghdad I went.

 

[00:02:09] Melissa Fleming

But it was a very volatile time then. It was the final years of the Iran-Iraq war. What was it like to be there?

 

[00:02:18] Corinne Momal-Vanian 

It was hard. I won't lie. It was a good place to start a UN career in many ways because being in the field as opposed to a large headquarters duty station like Geneva or New York allows you, first of all, to be given more responsibilities much more quickly and also to get an immediate sense of why you do what you're doing. But it was Saddam Hussein's time in Iraq, and he had an iron grip over the people. It was very difficult to interact with Iraqis because otherwise they would be immediately suspected of colluding with foreigners. So, we could only interact with the Iraqis really at the office. And we had some wonderful colleagues.

But it was harsh. You know, there were practical difficulties. We were not allowed to bring books or magazines or typewriters even. Only the UN could bring typewriters, but individually you were very controlled as to where you could go. You had to ask for permission to even go out of Baghdad a week in advance for any little trip you wanted to do. And you couldn't find... It was a very controlled economy.

It was a war economy because of course Iraq was at war with Iran. So once in a while, there were missiles falling on Baghdad. But it was a very controlled economy, so you couldn't find most consumer goods. And so, we had to go to Kuwait or Jordan regularly to do some basic shopping, very basic shopping. And so, it was very interesting. It was an immediate sense of this is the reality of war. This is the reality of certain societies. And it was a fascinating time, but a bit difficult.

 

[00:04:12] Melissa Fleming

But there was an office romance, I believe.

 

[00:04:15] Corinne Momal-Vanian

Indeed. I was lucky enough to meet my husband who was also assigned by the United Nations to Iraq to the same economic commission. And we were young and enthusiastic and in love, yeah.

 

[00:04:30] Melissa Fleming

So, it didn't seem so grim, those conditions.

 

[00:04:32] Corinne Momal-Vanian

It helped a lot. It helped a lot. Absolutely. And being a young person arriving in what was considered a hardship duty station, you're immediately part of a community and very well taken care of.

 

[00:04:47] Melissa Fleming

And you're still married?

 

[00:04:48] Corinne Momal-Vanian

And we're still married. Absolutely.

 

 

[00:04:48] Melissa Fleming

And it's been a long journey, and we're going to get into that. Did you think back then when you filled out that application and ended up in Iraq that you would dedicate so much of your working life to the UN? And if so, why?

 

[00:05:07] Corinne Momal-Vanian 

Yes. You know, I sort of grew up in a diplomatic environment. My father was a diplomat for the French government, and we were moving every two or three years. By the time I finished high school, I think I had lived in seven or eight different countries. So, this was a way of life that was very natural to me. I was always very interested in diplomacy. And there were two basic ways that opened to me. One was to go into the French Foreign Service. And the other one into the UN.

And I was... You know, when we lived in Egypt - when I was a child during what some call the Kippur War, some call the October War, 1973, I was small child at school - war came to Egypt and we could hear some of the bombing from Israeli planes. Although war did not come to Cairo, we were immersed in that feeling that, you know, there were some very serious things going on in the Suez Canal. School closed for a couple of weeks. And then the UN... The ceasefire was agreed on and there's some UN Blue Helmets [that] came.

And it was my first understanding as a child that there is an organization that can bring peace or that can take care of maintaining peace. And I was immediately fascinated and it never left me. So, when the opportunity came to apply to this examination to be recruited, I really didn't hesitate [for] a minute.

 

[00:06:48] Melissa Fleming

You then moved from a very repressive situation in Baghdad to New York City in 1990. This was also against the backdrop of the Cold War ending. It must have, from a UN perspective in New York, been an exciting time.

 

[00:07:04] Corinne Momal-Vanian

You know, it was an amazing time, in fact. And looking back, you understand the possibilities that were opening. My posting in New York... I was transferred from Baghdad to the Centre Against Apartheid in New York, and this is when apartheid ended, and the first time that Nelson Mandela came to the UN. He was not President yet, but he came a few months after being released from prison. He came and he insisted on meeting the people at the UN who had worked against apartheid. And you know, as a 25- or 26-year-old, I got to meet Nelson Mandela. It was incredible. But this was just one example among others. Things were happening. You know, the...

 

[00:07:48] Melissa Fleming

What did he say to all of you when he met you?

 

[00:07:51] Corinne Momal-Vanian

He said thank you. He said, 'Thank you and for fighting the good fight.' The international community was very united in the fight against apartheid. And the United Nations actually helped in the process. The Centre Against Apartheid helped. So it was, again, we had this sense that the UN was successful in doing things. The year that I joined the UN, actually, in 1987, was the year that the Montreal Protocol on the ozone layer was signed. And so, you had this sense that you could get really important agreements, that things were going to get better.

 

[00:08:30] Melissa Fleming

You then moved on to Bangkok. I mean you had lived around the world before as a child, as you said. But what was that like and what context did you move to Bangkok?

 

[00:08:41] Corinne Momal-Vanian 

My husband was transferred to Bangkok, and so I managed to find a position also in Bangkok at the information service. And it was, again, an amazing, exciting time because the UN had deployed a very large operation in Cambodia. After the tragedy of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and the genocide that had happened in the country, again, it was really a new dawn on the country. And so many possibilities got started from scratch. I think when the Khmer Rouge left the country, there were like two doctors and two lawyers left in the whole country since intellectuals and people with any education were targeted, you know.

So, the UN deployed this massive operation, and it was one of the first very wide operations. So, it took care of elections, but it took also of restoring the administration, helping the country rebuild its government. And importantly, it took care also of repatriating all the refugees that had left during the Khmer Rouge year to Thailand, essentially. And so there was a massive refugee repatriation organization that went well. You know, I mean, I'm sure there were difficulties and challenges.

And that was run by Sergio Vieira de Mello, who was already quite famous in the United Nations. And it was one of the people that you meet as a young civil servant that really inspires you because he was obviously so committed to the mission and so good at it. And I just remember because we were... Since I was working in Bangkok in the information service, we were asked by the peacekeeping mission in Cambodia to bring a group of international journalists.

So, we took a group to just showcase what the UN... To explain what the mission was about, what it was doing. So, I remember really going all over Cambodia with those journalists and some colleagues from the UN mission, meeting reformed Khmer Rouge that were reintegrated. Explaining about the disarmament, demobilization, reconstruction. It was really very, very inspiring. And meeting Sergio Vieira de Mello was really one of the highlights as well.

 

[00:11:05] Melissa Fleming

Sergio Vieira de Mello who would unfortunately succumb to horrific injuries from the bombing of UN headquarters in Baghdad years later. It must have hit you really hard then.

 

[00:11:16] Corinne Momal-Vanian 

It did because I knew other people, of course, who passed. I think it hit all of us very hard. In those days, people said, 'This was the September 11 moment for the UN.' And I remember with colleagues feeling very despondent that the UN had been directly targeted.

And this is one of those shifts, times when you think something is happening here and the UN is becoming a target. And of course, the UN had been very reluctant to go into Iraq and Kofi Annan had said very clearly that the invasion of Iraq in 2003 was not in compliance with the Charter and he got pretty much crucified for it.

 

[00:12:04] Melissa Fleming

He did. And it extinguished the lives and the hope around the UN in being able to transform places that had succumbed to conflict. And your husband, was he in the humanitarian area?

 

[00:12:24] Corinne Momal-Vanian

No. He was in fact in administration and he went back. He was transferred back to New York. He worked in the Department of Peacekeeping Operations.

 

[00:12:36] Melissa Fleming

And it's amazing that you were able to then go back with him and that you both found jobs because that's not always the case for UN couples, right?

 

[00:12:42] Corinne Momal-Vanian

It was difficult. It was not easy. But we managed. We managed, you know. And there were a few months gap between. You know, I had to stay in New York behind him when he went to Bangkok. But we managed to go back to New York at the same time, yeah. And I went back to the Department of Political Affairs in New York.

 

[00:13:00] Melissa Fleming

And that's when you started working for a Secretary-General. At that time, it was Boutros Boutros-Ghali.

 

[00:13:04] Corinne Momal-Vanian

And a few months later, yes, I was transferred to what we call the 38th floor, which is the Executive Office of the Secretary-General. It was a very small Executive Office. Very tight. Very small. Boutros-Ghali had just three Special Advisers, and I was working with one of the three Special Advisers on Europe, Latin America, and a number of themes - gender equality, civil society. And each of these Advisers had quite a big portfolio.

 

[00:13:31] Melissa Fleming

Then you did too. And it was a very challenging time for the UN then. It was in the aftermath of Rwanda, the Rwandan genocide against the Tutsi and the Srebrenica genocide. What do you remember about those kind of, I don't know, some would say failures of the UN to protect people and to allow these atrocities to happen?

 

 

[00:13:58] Corinne Momal-Vanian 

It was, you know, I remember sitting - I suppose it's okay to say it now after so many years - as a humble, young Political Affairs Officer taking notes in Boutros-Ghali's office. And I remember him trying to convince important Member States that the peacekeeping operation in Rwanda had to be beefed up because some very bad things were brewing. And the Member States resisting because in particular, the United States had had a very bad experience in Somalia just before with soldiers killed and dragged in the streets. And so there was a reluctance to engage further.

In any case also, the UN did not sound the alarm enough. And this was actually recognized by Kofi Annan. When he became Secretary-General, he carried [out] that investigation review and apologized publicly on behalf of the UN, which I think was the first time the UN publicly apologized for its failing. But this was a major failing. This and Srebrenica, of course. But it's true that these were stains on the UN and will remain forever.

But it did not fully dampen the sense of possibilities and hope because there were so many successes. There were all the operations in... I mentioned Cambodia. But over a span of 15 years, you had some very successful operations in Central America - Salvador, Guatemala. You had Mozambique. Later -Timor-Leste. And later also - Liberia. You had this sense that we were useful to bringing and maintaining and building peace, and that these peacekeeping operations actually had a purpose, [and] were a very good investment.

And so there were some failures as well. And the most dramatic obviously being Rwanda and Srebrenica. Haiti didn't go well either. We had several peacekeeping operations in Haiti, and we know what the situation is today. But I would say that from inside the house, maybe we were under illusions, but we had still this great sense of hope and possibility. Even though I agree, Srebrenica and Rwanda will remain stains on our history.

 

[00:16:22] Melissa Fleming

But ones that we faced.

 

[00:16:24] Corinne Momal-Vanian

The ones that we faced. Exactly.

 

[00:16:29] Melissa Fleming

Hopefully, corrected and to the extent possible. Because it's easy to say the UN failed, but the investigation that Kofi Annan commissioned, you know, there's more nuance there. We are only as strong as our Member States, we say.

 

[00:16:48] Corinne Momal-Vanian

It was a collective failure, obviously, of the UN and the Member States and the international community. A tragic one.

 

[00:16:54] Melissa Fleming

Exactly. When you were working with Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali, where did you go? I understand that part of your role was to travel with him.

 

[00:17:05] Corinne Momal-Vanian 

Yes, I went... I mean, I have these incredible memories of this trip. He wanted to visit Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, and Haiti. So, we went on this whirlwind visit of those countries. So everywhere we went, on this little plane, we had adventures. It was absolutely amazing.

In Haiti, when we arrived in Haiti, the US Army was there even before the UN. And so, they guided us, but they lost us. The US Army got lost between the airport and the hotel. So, I was a bit worried about the rest. So, but they lost us. But I already had the sense then that you could see arriving by plane that the whole part of the island that is shared between Dominican Republic and Haiti, but on the Haitian part there was not a single tree standing except in Port-au-Prince. So, the deforestation was terrible, which of course makes things much worse in case of natural disasters. So that, we got lost.

When we arrived in Guatemala, the pilot landed us on the wrong airport in the middle of the jungle in Guatemala and instead of Guatemala City. And there were a few soldiers playing football on the runway, this little airport. They were very surprised that this jet landed with the Secretary-General on board. And so, we had to go back and fly to the right one.

And when we arrived in Honduras, we noticed that the government delegation seemed very serious and something had happened. And in fact, the President's son had crashed his own plane in the same airport just two hours before we arrived. They just had time to clean up the wreckage for us, and he died. And so, we arrived in very strange circumstances.

And finally, when we were in Honduras, the UN Resident Coordinator in Salvador came and asked to see the Secretary-General urgently. And we were going next to San Salvador. And he said, 'Secretary-General, we have been informed that there's going to be an attempt on your life in Salvador.' Because there were some demobilized soldiers that were very upset with the UN. 'And we would advise that you not go and you cancel the trip.'

And Boutros-Ghali was many things, but he was definitely not a coward. And he said, 'It's out of the question. We will go and we will find a way.' And, you know, they knew that the attempt would be made on the road from the airport to the centre of town. So, they just flew us by helicopter instead, and they arrested the people and so on. But I was so impressed by his determination. He never even hesitated for one second. He said, 'No. Out of the question. We're going anyway.'

 

 

[00:20:09] Melissa Fleming

You mentioned determination from leaders. And in that point in your career, you mentioned a lot of just that sense of hope. But maybe it is a determination that you saw in the UN and all of the missions that it was undertaking. Is that something you would attribute, that you would assign to the UN in terms of trying to solve the global problems of the world?

 

[00:20:34] Corinne Momal-Vanian 

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. And to its leaders. And I can give you another example. In 2006, after the conflict between Hezbollah and Israel, after Israel bombed Beirut very badly, the Security Council agreed on asking for a ceasefire, but it was very shaky. And so, Kofi Annan decided to also jump on a plane and go around all the Middle East, meet with all the stakeholders to make sure that the ceasefire was fully implemented, and to agree on a number of other... To sort of help the situation and other things that were making the situation very tense. Like there was an embargo on Lebanon imposed by Israel and so on.

So, we just had to improvise completely. We jumped on the plane, and he took a number of advisers, and I was what was called a "trip captain". So, you organize all the trip. And we went to Tehran. We went to Beirut, to Tel Aviv, to Damascus, Doha and Jeddah, Cairo. And he met with everyone. And I was at the time, there was part of me thinking, 'But there are such big players here. Not even in the region, but other big players as well. Are we going to really make a difference at this stage?' And there was also this unshakable belief in Kofi Annan that he could make a difference.

 

[00:22:15] Melissa Fleming

That sounds like quite a trip. If you could just tell me a bit about him and you were his Special Assistant and you were learning about him as a leader and as a person. What struck you about his leadership and maybe anything that surprised you at that point?

 

[00:22:35] Corinne Momal-Vanian 

Well, this thing that, you know, his strong belief that he could make a difference was really something that struck me a lot. Sometimes I was even thinking, 'But this is hubris. Who do we think we are?' But he knew it was not hubris at all. He knew that with clever diplomacy you could achieve a lot. So that was one thing.

The other thing, and people often talk about it, was his humanity. You know, the first trip I took with him was in Darfur. The situation was already bad. In Darfur massacres were happening. The Janjaweed militias were killing people in Darfur. And we went and visited... And there was huge population displacement within the country. And we went and visited some camps.

And after that, he called me in... When we were back in Khartoum called me and he was sweet and he said, 'So...' Because that was the first trip. I think he wanted to test me. He said, 'So, what did you think? What did you think?' I said, 'Well, it was very moving.' Because it was really a lot of humanity parked in very precarious conditions in a desert environment. He said, 'But did you see the smiles of the children?' And it really struck me that he managed to see the smiles of the children among all this misery and this profound humanity. And he... I don't know how you can do this, but he never saw like a group of people, a group of refugees. He saw each individual among them.

 

[00:24:14] Melissa Fleming

This was also a really difficult time for Kofi Annan as Secretary-General because of the backdrop of the Oil-for-Food scandal. What was that like being on the inside and how did he react?

 

[00:24:27] Corinne Momal-Vanian

So there was part of him that was very affected because the press was very nasty, went after him in a very personal way, went after his family. So, I think he was very affected. It's quite well known that he lost his voice for a while. So, he literally... I mean, he always had a low voice, but he literally lost his voice for few weeks. It was, I mean, a kind of nervous breakdown. I mean, it was very stressful. Because he could see that it was, I mean, him personally, but also the Organization, of course, that was under attack.

 

[00:25:04] Melissa Fleming

For people who've forgotten what Oil-for-Food was, can you just explain.

 

[00:25:08] Corinne Momal-Vanian 

Yes, of course. When there were sanctions on Iraq, pretty much throughout the 1990s, after the first Gulf War, when Iraq invaded Kuwait. And then there was a suspicion that the Iraqi government was developing weapons of mass destruction. There were inspections. But there was the whole system in place because the sanctions were hurting the people. So, there was a whole section put in place to ensure that humanitarian goods could go in, that medicine, food and so on could go in. And that was taken from some of the oil revenues from the country. So, it was a very complex mechanism put in place - Oil-for-Food.

But there were some accusations and some of them were partially proven true, but a lot of it was actually hype against the UN that this was a corrupt scheme and that some people inside the UN had benefited themselves, were taking kickbacks from the Iraqi government and so on. In the end, some people were taking kickbacks, but mostly companies from Western countries. So, it was very difficult.

And then when Kofi Annan said... [In] 2003, he responded to a journalist who asked him, 'Was the invasion of Iraq in compliance with the Charter?' He said, no. I mean, what was he going to say? He said, 'No, it was not.' And so, he was then attacked very, very badly. He actually also accepted an investigation that was run by Paul Volcker around the Oil-for-Food that really didn't find much. There was... It was probably not something that the UN was well-equipped to run, but the corruption that was discussed didn't exist in the UN at least, you know. But he was attacked.

And so, after a while, and this plus the death of Sergio in Baghdad and a lot of these things, were weighing on him after a while, you know. And so, he lost his voice. And he was also more or less pressured to change a lot of his team. I was in his office at the start of his first mandate, left for family reasons, came back at the end of the second mandate.

And when he interviewed me actually here in the UN at the [inaudible] for this post of Special Assistant, and the only question.... So, he knew me a bit from before, but I hadn't worked very closely with him. The only question he really asked was: 'What does the UN mean for you? What is it?' And I looked at him. I said, 'The UN is my life. It's my family.' And he looked at me and I knew I got the post, but it was completely sincere. But that was what mattered. And he wanted to make sure we had the full commitment to the Organization and that it was not just a job.

 

 

[00:28:00] Melissa Fleming

And the UN has changed quite a bit. But when you think about where we are with the UN right now, what is keeping you awake at night these days?

 

[00:28:12] Corinne Momal-Vanian 

What is keeping me awake at night? I think two things. One is I feel the Organization is a bit in a rut and unable to break out. So, as I just described, we had been in a rut before, but we managed to break out faster. And here I feel we're not able to break out. And it really bothers me. I gave 33 years of my life to this Organization. I'm so committed. I just saw what it delivered. Amazing stuff. And so, I think it's very unfair and we have to find a way out.

But the second thing that bothers me is that I blame us partially. I find that it's very difficult when you sit in Geneva, or New York, or Vienna, or even Bangkok, or Addis Ababa, not to get stuck in our little UN world. And we have to find ways to meet people, to bring the voices in. And we're not always very good at that. We're not very good always at explaining what we do, but we're not very good at letting young people, in particular, sit at the table.

 

[00:29:26] Melissa Fleming

You were based here in Geneva for many years. And one of the positions was actually leading the communications team here. And I know at that time you also really endeavoured to reach out to young people. It was also when social media was starting to become really dominant. But do you think that we have managed as UN communicators to rise to the challenge of reaching people where they are?

 

[00:29:59] Corinne Momal-Vanian

I think we tried very hard. We tried very hard to explain to people, you and I together, Melissa, and sometimes which were... We worked very closely together in some of these efforts. We tried to explain to people that the UN impacted their lives in very concrete ways from dawn to night. We tried very hard, but I'm not sure we broke through the noise. I'm not sure we managed. You need to have allies out there to break through the noise.

 

[00:30:37] Melissa Fleming

You also worked deep in the bureaucracy of the UN. For a while you were leading conference services with like 600 staff and managing all of the meetings and everything that goes with it here. What was that like for you?

 

[00:30:55] Corinne Momal-Vanian

It was tough. I'm not going to lie. It was tough. So, I'm a bureaucrat. I mean, I have no... It's been my career. I have no shame in recognizing it. Every single rule starts with for a good reason in the UN. But after a while the rule takes a life of its own and you forget sometimes the purpose, the good reason. And it's true in our recruitment processes. It's true in our procurement processes. I mean, I think it's really time we have a very serious look at all of this. Our budget situation is so precarious, so we have to simplify things and really look at administrations or large organizations that are doing it better, that are doing it in more simple ways, because it doesn't need to be that complex, really.

 

[00:31:47] Melissa Fleming

I mean, there are many detractors that we're hearing that are saying that the UN isn't delivering anymore. It's not needed. It's inadequate to the task. Why would you say the UN is still needed? Why do we need it?

 

[00:32:02] Corinne Momal-Vanian 

Because, I mean, people don't realize... And despite all our efforts, Melissa, people just don't realize that actually their whole life is assisted by the UN in a way. I mean from making international phone calls to flying planes internationally, sending mail abroad and having vaccines that are certified by the WHO [World Health Organization] as being healthy and useful.

So, this whole architecture... Our world is so interconnected that we need basic rules and norms and systems to make it work. And the Member States know that by the way. They don't really question that so much. So, the architecture of norms and rules and systems, I have no doubt will survive and will survive well because it's needed. What worries me more is that it's not only that that matters in the UN. It's also the values, the values of the Charter, of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. And that I see as Member States questioning those more.

 

 

[00:33:11] Melissa Fleming

Maybe just a word. What are those values?

 

[00:33:14] Corinne Momal-Vanian

The values are the ones in the Charter. The values are of human dignity, of solidarity as well, which people forget that the Charter is not only about ending the scourge of war for future generations. It's also about promoting social and economic equality. And so, it's really putting human dignity at the centre. That every human being deserves to live a fulfilling life and life in dignity, that's also at the heart of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and those are truly universal aspirations.

 

[00:33:54] Melissa Fleming

Even when you left the UN a few years ago, you've decided to contribute in another way. You've been leading the Kofi Annan Foundation. How much does that mean to you personally that you have been able to lead his foundation?

 

[00:34:10] Corinne Momal-Vanian

It was a huge honour when I was selected, but it was also a huge responsibility because I didn't feel I could fail Kofi Annan, you know, who passed away in 2018. But when I arrived at the foundation, it was just 18 months after he passed, and in a way the foundation was still in mourning in many ways. And we found this articulation of three areas of work. One, as I mentioned, was the promotion of multilateralism. Another, which was very close to Kofi Annan's heart and we already discussed, was youth leadership and inclusion. And the third was democracy.

 

[00:34:53] Melissa Fleming

Is there a project that you're particularly proud of?

 

[00:34:56] Corinne Momal-Vanian 

So many. So many. One is something which we created five years ago, which is called the Kofi Annan Changemakers and it's really creating a community of young people around the world who share Kofi Annan's values. And we don't train them because they don't need to be trained, frankly. I mean, young people know what they want to do and how to do it. But we just give them access to networks, to funding. We bring them together. We discuss values with them. And now we're building this incredible community of Kofi Annan Changemakers. We have over 60 now on five continents. So that, I have... You know, every year I have interacted closely with the cohort. We stay in touch. We work with them, some of them, five years later. That has been very close to my heart.

But recently, we started a project in Lebanon around cultural heritage. And we bring young people to work on a historical site, people from different communities. Lebanon is quite a divided country, very diverse. So, we bring young people from marginalized and divided communities to work on the restoration of a historical site. They learn a trade, which is very important because young people are deeply affected by unemployment in Lebanon. So, they learn to trade. Lebanon is incredible. The historical heritage is incredible, very rich. They learn a trade, but they also learn to live together. And we do workshops also about living together. And then they have to bring in their communities.

 

[00:36:36] Melissa Fleming

The world probably looks turbulent and dark for those young people. What would you say to them?

 

[00:36:42] Corinne Momal-Vanian

Actually, they say to me... This is the amazing part, is that the young people I meet essentially from Asia, Africa, and Latin America mostly, they're full of hope and energy. And I feel sometimes that we are depressed and despondent. I speak for myself as a European because we're part of an old continent, a very aging continent where the energy is lacking. But I meet young people who live in very difficult conditions objectively and they are full of hope and energy, and they see the future as full of possibilities. So that's why we have to listen to them more because otherwise we could really become despondent and depressed. But they don't see the world as in a very bad place. They see a world full of possibilities.

 

 

[00:37:38] Melissa Fleming

They see the UN as an organization that can help.

 

[00:37:41] Corinne Momal-Vanian

They're super interested and they love the UN. Whenever a group comes to Geneva, I bring them to the UN and I work with your colleagues, Melissa, to make sure that they understand what it is. They respect it and they have some tough questions sometimes. They have some very tough questions.

 

[00:37:59] Melissa Fleming

Sometimes the toughest.

 

[00:38:00] Corinne Momal-Vanian

Yeah. Yeah, and that are justified. But all of them who come believe as an obvious, simple, as an evident truth that countries should work together. All of them. There isn't a single one that has said to me, 'We don't need the UN. We don't need to work together. We're better off doing our stuff in our own country.' Not a single one.

 

[00:38:26] Melissa Fleming

Corrine, thank you so much for this conversation. It's been fascinating to get to know you even better and to learn all these new details about your life.

 

[00:38:35] Corinne Momal-Vanian

Thank you, Melissa. Thank you for having me.

 

[00:38:37] Melissa Fleming 

Thank you for listening to Awake at Night. We'll be back soon with more incredible and inspiring stories from people working against huge challenges to make this world a better and safer place.

To find out more about the series and the extraordinary people featured, do visit un.org/awake-at-night. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and please take the time to review us. It helps more people to find the show.

Thanks to my editor Bethany Bell and to my colleagues at the UN: Katerina Kitidi, Roberta Politi, Geneva Damayanti, Abby Vardeleon, Alison Corbet, Laura Rodriguez de Castro, Eric Balgley, Jason Candler, Benji Candelario, Anzhelika Devis, Tulin Battikhi, Bissera Kostova, Brianna Rowe, Joon Park, and Taeyoung Lee. The original music for this podcast was written and performed by Nadine Shah and produced by Ben Hillier.