{"id":210180,"date":"2005-01-13T00:00:00","date_gmt":"2019-03-12T19:53:54","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.un.org\/unispal\/?p=210180"},"modified":"2019-03-12T19:53:54","modified_gmt":"2019-03-12T19:53:54","slug":"auto-insert-210180","status":"publish","type":"document","link":"https:\/\/www.un.org\/unispal\/document\/auto-insert-210180\/","title":{"rendered":"Pres. Mubarak on chance available to solve Palestinian issue – Transcript of interview with PBS TV – Presidency of Egypt press release\/Non-UN document"},"content":{"rendered":"
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Mubarak to Charlie Rose of the US PBS TV: 
\nWarned of losing the current chance available to solve the Palestinian issue<\/strong><\/i><\/p><\/div>\n

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President Hosni Mubarak warned of losing the current chance available to solve the Palestinian issue, adding that the loss of such opportunity would be a great disaster.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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    In an interview to PBS's Charlie Rose, Mubarak said he believes the United States knows what it has to do for the Palestinians and their problem, noting if the United States worked seriously to settle the Palestinians' problem we would go as far as we could go. He added that the Palestinians have been suffh for 50 years, asserting that the United States is working on achieving stability.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: Mr. President, Thank you for allowing us to come to Cairo and talk to you about some important questions and issues. Let me begin by asking you, how is your health?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: Very good. I had a small operation in June. As soon as they made the operation, one week after the operation, and started working.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: Will you run for reelection?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: This is too early to tell you about that.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: Haven't decided? M: I haven't decided, yet. We have a long time for that. C: When will you decide? In May?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: May be May. May be after May. It's not an easy job, to make a quick decision. It's not an easy job, especially here.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: This is an important time in the Middle East. Palestinians and Israelis have an opportunity. You have had some nice things to say about Prime Minister Sharon. You said that he is the best hope for the Palestinians. Why have you decided that? What convinced you that Sharon was the best hope?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: It's not a matter for to say publicly. I have my assessment on the man in dealing with him for quite a long time. I knew him since he was the minister of defence during late Menachem Begin and Sadat. And I remember when they were in the United States to conclude the agreement, there was a problem between Sadat and Menachem Begin about the settlements near the borders, and our territory.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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Menachem Begin phoned Sharon in the presence of Sadat, told him we have a problem of the settlement, and he said look Mr. Prime Minister, it's easy to remove it. And he removed it.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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Since that time, when I met him in March after he took office, I found he's a very strong man. I have experience with Netanyahu. Concerning the Palestinian issue, concerning our relations with Barak, Shimon Peres, with Rabin, Rabin was very strong man. Sharon is a very strong man. He is capable of making peace if there is a way. And I think after the talks I made with him several times, and the contacts I am making now and then, I feel that he is ready for peace.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: Do you feel that there is, among, say, the defence minister who has also said that Israelis are prepared to make peace. He said in an interesting conversation that the moment that the Palestinians can take responsibility over certain areas I am willing to give them the responsibility. It could be Gaza; it could be areas of the West Bank, population centers like Ramallah, Nablus, Jenin, and Hebron. Is the vision that the Israelis have the same vision that you have for the Palestinians?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: At this stage it's the same. It's nearly the same. I cannot predict exactly what is it, but in general terms, I think it's the same.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: Palestinian homeland side by side with Israel? M: This is what George Bush said. Should two independent states, democratic states live side by side with each other in the same area?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: Yasser Arafat was an historic figure, yet Palestinians today seem more optimistic for peace than they have in a long time. What is that?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: Have you gathered the opinions of all Palestinians? Let us be realistic. Now there's a new leader. They had hoped with the new leader that the Israelis could respond with needs, and there are factions in the Palestinian arena who are still hesitant about the situation. But, to maintain peace, and to give hope to the people, there are two tracks.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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First, they should sit at the negotiating table. At the same time, there should be economic support to the Palestinian people. If these two tracks are not working together, it would not lead to very good results. The people are suffering. When the people are optimistic of the new administration, they change; they look for their own living. That's all.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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If you help them economically, and the United States helps them, the Europeans help them, the rich Arabs help them, at the same time, with sitting at the negotiating table, I think this is the only way that everything should settle down and peace process could move forward.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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But don't expect that violence will stop overnight. You can not press a button, no violence, no explosions. It will take sometime. I could remind you when Rabin was trying in an agreement with the Palestinians, the 4th of May 1990, if I remember, when he signed, I told him take care, Rabin.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: There are elements that may not want this to prevail, so explosions could take place every now and then and violence could take place now and then, so don't get upset, but you have to continue. You know what Rabin said? An explosion took place right away, 10 days after what happened. He said publicly, I'm going to fight terrorism. At the same time, I'm going to continue the peace process.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: So your message to the Israelis that, clearly, there may be acts of violence?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: Maybe, at the same time, while speaking with the Palestinians also. I'm not just sending a message only to the Israelis. I'm asking the Palestinians-to slow down. Give a chance for peace to move forward. That's why two tracks should take place. Sitting at the negotiating table is a good signal for the Palestinians. Supporting them economically is very important for the negotiations to continue.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: And economic support?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: This should go parallel with each other. If you start negotiations, and you forgot, the standard of people, the way they are living, the people are suffering, it would be difficult to convince them to accept whatever could be concluded. Let us be realistic. We are dealing with human beings. I want to live. I want to send my boys to school. I want to cure my children. I want, I want, I want food.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: What is Egypt's role?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: All this time and you didn't realize what is Egypt's role.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: One, your role is to mediate, to push forward, to negotiate?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: Our role is to push forward on both tables. We are speaking with the Israelis, we are persuading the Israelis to start negotiations. We supported Israel for the withdrawal from Gaza with coordination with the Palestinians, at the same time, we are speaking with the Palestinians. Give a chance for the new administration, do whatever you can, so as to create a good atmosphere for negotiations, and they will help the economic support. We are working very hard. And moreover we have access to all the Palestinian factions.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: Hamas?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: There are about 13 factions. I do not want to mention the names. About thirteen factions including Hamas and Jihad have been gathered here (Cairo) two months ago, and we had discussed with them some issues. And they are going to come here (Cairo) in March, also. That is when we are discussing with them the issues, that is when we are going to understand the situation. And we are not exerting pressure on any of them but we are explaining to them everything, so as to have the peace process move forward.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: But Hamas did not participate in the elections. M: That's something else…That is their decision. That does not mean they have to participate in the elections. But they are not creating problems.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: What should Abu Mazen's message to all groups be? That they have a stake in the future of a new Palestinian state and they can participate in a new Palestinian state and they should forgo violence.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: All the Palestinian factions are waiting to see what is going on. As the two tracks moved it would be a good signal to all the Palestinian factions that the peace is coming, and the situation will be changed. So all these factions will participate and Abu Mazen will include them in his government or administration.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: It is said when the Palestinian people have hope and feel that there is change, the popularity of these groups diminishes.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: Look it is not a matter that their popularity will diminish. This depends upon –they may unite with each other and support Abu Mazen. If the two tracks went forward and they give a good signal for the Palestinians there is a new era, a new hope for living. You can not say diminish, but they may cooperate with each other.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: You believe that is possible?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: Everything is possible.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: Do they, those groups, have a different view about a two-state solution? It has always been summed that Hamas was not in favour of a two-state solution. They wanted one state.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: It is a matter of a …These things could be put on a negotiating table. I do not want to jump to conclusions and say if they have this direction or that direction. Let us leave this to the negotiations.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: My impression is that Egypt is playing a much stronger role in the region today. You are involved in terms of…<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: Only today?..Always. Do not forget. We are working very hard for years on the Palestinian issue.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: But you seize the moment today.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: Yes.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: You are trying to push the Israelis. You are trying to encourage Israelis. You are trying to encourage Abu Mazen to be inclusive and also to do something about security issues. And your security people are helping train Palestinian security?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: You know, we started this issue for a long time with the Israelis to give them (Palestinians) permission to send some elements to be trained here (Cairo) for security. I think the last (move came) with the visit of (Egyptian) foreign minister and the chief of intelligence, when they met with Sharon, he agreed to send groups here may be on 1st of February.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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They are coming to meet here about security, so as to take over when the withdrawal from Gaza starts to move.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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At the same time, whenever these groups..who are well trained..and when they go to Gaza we are going to send a special group to put a planning for them a planning to move for security there.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: The Israelis worry when they withdraw from Gaza that there will be some smuggling of weapons into Gaza which can be used to attack them.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: Charlie, we had one rocket being launched against us in Rafah, the Egyptian Rafah. Look securing the border, we are doing the maximum effort. And there is a protocol now or a message between both sides, the military there and military here, to increase the amount of soldiers which secure the borders, but anyway or anyhow, smuggling could take place from so many places.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: But Egypt is doing everything they can to stop it.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: We are doing the maximum. We are not interested in letting any arms go there. It is our security also. We would like to keep good relations with Israelis so as to help the process. I think when we increase the number of soldiers which secure the borders it would be increased about 700, as soon as the protocol is finished. This would give much more security. The border is long, 70 kilometers. The amount of soldiers is not enough at the same time, they have to secure the border from their side. Do not blame us and give us responsibility of securing the border from your side. There should be cooperation between the two sides.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: Is there cooperation taking place? A few soldiers, I think it is difficult. But I think with the increase of soldiers it will help a lot. But there is no doubt in your mind, if you can make the withdrawal from Gaza with the Israelis, and those settlements are just taken away, and the settlers leave, that can be a model for other areas in the West Bank.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: I think it would be a good model. It would be a good model.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: And you're convinced that President Bush recognizes that this is an important moment, and the United States, not only with economic aid, but also with whatever influence it has with Israel, which is considerable. It will do its best to make sure that Israel..<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: Look, for sure the emphasis of the United States is crucial and important. Mind you, we are speaking with the Palestinians and the Israelis just to settle down so many issues. But the intervention of the United States is very important on both sides. It will be a big help we shouldn't ignore their efforts, because it's vital and important.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: It is taking place?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: I think it will start when the negotiations start, and I think it may take much more place.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: What do you think of Abu Mazen?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: I think we know Abu Mazen, when he signed the Oslo agreement, he was a very good negotiator during with Arafat. He signed the Oslo agreement. You remember that.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: And he was the man who was doing the Oslo agreement on his responsibility. I remember that in June of the year in which they reached the Oslo agreement, I met with Arafat in this place with Abu Mazen, and some other elements coming with him. Yasser Arafat whispered in my ear and told me, Mr. President, we are negotiating with Israel by Abu Mazen in Oslo secretly and the rest of the group knows nothing about it. So it gives you the impression that Yasser Arafat was very confident of Abu Mazen, and he could manage to move forward, he made the agreement.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: Yeah, but he also was prime minister and he felt when he was Prime Minster before he didn't get enough support from moderate Arabs, and perhaps not enough support from the United States.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: What do you mean other Arabs?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: That when he was prime minister, everybody did not give him enough support across the region. The United States, Arabs.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: We supported Abu Mazen when he was the prime minister. We tried hard to make Arafat give him support and make the security forces under his command. We made tremendous efforts. The United States knows that and the Israelis know that.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: But the United States…<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: So don't, if you mean other Arabs. I don't know what other Arabs were not supporting Abu Mazen.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: Can you imagine Israel and Palestine, two separate states, living peacefully side by side?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: They can understand each other very well, living with each other for more than 50 years. So once I was with Arafat and Barak in Sharm El-Sheikh when Clinton was there at that time, We were mediating pushing Arafat and telling Barak, and making them understand each other and they were laughing, and I told them, look, you Barak and Arafat, you are going to make peace. I'm afraid at the end, you may unite against us. (laughing) you must be very careful with us. (laughing) I told them openly like this.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: That was a missed opportunity, wasn't it?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: There are many opportunities that were missed. In 1967, when the Israelis said we are going to withdraw and all the Arabs recognize the Israeli state.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: After that in Mena House, when they convened for the negotiations, there was an Israeli flag and a Palestinian flag. Some elements, and some leaders at that time persuaded the Palestinians not to attend and sit with the Israelis.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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After that, the Camp David accord, the paper of principles, it was not an agreement, two papers of principles, one for the Palestinian issue, and one for the Egyptian-Israeli issue.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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It was not a binding agreement. It was apaper of principles on the basis of which both parties could negotiate and reach a settlement .The Palestinians rejected. And were persuaded by some Arab leaders who didn't want this to happen because Egypt was interfering there.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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We took the framework of some of the principles between Egypt and Israel and then it took a long time. We concluded the peace agreement with Egypt and Israel.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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That's why the relations are getting very much better than ever before. Contact was going on, ministers going here and there, starting very good business with them.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: So the Arab world and Palestinians are prepared to accept the existence, the reality, the security of Israel?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: Have you – Do you remember the Arab summit in Beirut, and the resolution declared at that time?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: The plans proposed by the crown prince?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: Yes, it was a true plan. It was agreed on unanimously. That means that all the Arab countries are ready to recognize the existence. It is a state. It is existing, you can't remove it.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: And what will be the impact of a Palestinian state living side by side, for the region, for the economic success of the region, for the Arab world in general?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: What do you mean by that.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: If a Palestinian state is accepted.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: Palestinian?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: A Palestinian state, what will it mean for the Arab world?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: Put an end to violence and the killing and stability will take place in this part of the world, because the main problem in this part of the world, the problem for us and for even the United States is having this no-Palestinian state. The people are being ignored so it's very important to establish a Palestinian state.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: And it will happen by 2005?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: We are in 2005. I do not expect that. George Bush said not before-seven, eight, nine-but we would like the negotiations to start.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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…<\/p><\/div>\n

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C: Are you optimistic about the future?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: For sure. If you look at what happened, what wars, 20 years ago, and what's happening now, completely complete change in everything. Complete change everything. Free press, independent judicial systems, so many things which were not existent before. It saved the country from several wars. There was no infrastructure. No telephone lines, sewage, no water supplies, no electricity no so many things. And the country could not survive that time. We are working hard to building the country after wars.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: You mean, after the Iraqi war after –the wars?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: I mean the wars with Israel before the peace accord.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: This could be very important year for the region if everyone keep their eyes on the ball.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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You already had a Palestinian election with a result you encouraged.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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You could have an Iraqi election.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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You are hoping there will be satisfactory result there, and that people who don't participate will be include.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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And you have warned that if there's a civil war in Iraq, it will inflame the region. So everybody has a stake to do everything they can today?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: From our point of view, we are doing whatever we can to maintain peace and stability. But role number one is the United States.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: Finally tell me what you want from the United States?<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: I think the United States knows what to do with problem with Palestinians, and they know how to do it with the Iraqis.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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We are like –we could help as far as we can. But you have much more capability than ours. You had much more influence than ours. So I think is very important here for what you mentioned. That's why, if we did not succeed on these points it would be a big problem, and it will be a mess in the whole area.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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C: And if we miss this opportunity–<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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M: We don't want to miss it. We don't want to miss it.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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Missing the opportunity is a big disaster. We don't make use of 2005, try to push the Palestinian issue. I know that it's not going to be finally settled this year, negotiations will take longer time than that, with the complicated things I would like in Iraq that they have other forces. It will take a long time, it is not easy to reform armed forces and police forces this will take, one, two, three years.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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And this is going to give hope and lessen tension, in this part of the world, and the United States has a very important and crucial role there.<\/span> <\/span><\/p><\/div>\n

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…<\/p><\/div>\n

\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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