Page 73
1 Wednesday, 23 August 2006
2 [Status Conference]
3 [Open session]
4 [The appellants entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 8.01 a.m.
6 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Madam Registrar, will you please call the
7 case.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honour. Case number
9 IT-02-60-A, the Prosecutor versus Vidoje Blagojevic and Dragan Jokic.
10 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Thank you.
11 Well, very warm welcome to all of you. This is a Status
12 Conference at the appeals stage in the case of Prosecution against
13 Blagojevic and Jokic. I would like to begin by ensuring in the usual way
14 that the audio equipment is functioning properly.
15 Mr. Jokic and Mr. Blagojevic, can each of you hear the proceedings
16 in a language you understand?
17 THE APPELLANT BLAGOJEVIC: [Interpretation] Yes.
18 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Each of the counsel? Yes.
19 Next I would call for appearances. Mr. Blagojevic.
20 MR. DOMAZET: Vladimir Domazet, counsel for Mr. Blagojevic.
21 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Domazet.
22 Mr. Jokic.
23 MR. MURPHY: Good morning, Your Honour. Peter Murphy and Chrissa
24 Loukas for Mr. Jokic. Ms. Loukas will be conducting the Status Conference
25 today.
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1 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Yes, and the Prosecution.
2 MR. SHIN: Good morning, Your Honour, and good morning to my
3 learned colleagues. Milbert Shin for the Prosecution, together with
4 co-counsel Ms. Katharina Margetts and our case manager, Ms. Kim Fischer.
5 Your Honour, Ms. Margetts will be conducting the Status Conference on
6 behalf of Prosecution.
7 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Thank you very kindly.
8 Now, as you are aware, Rule 65 bis of the Rules of Procedure and
9 Evidence requires that Status Conferences be held for each appellant in
10 the Tribunal's custody at intervals no greater than 120 days. The last
11 Status Conferences in this case were held for Mr. Blagojevic on 13 March
12 2006 and for Mr. Jokic on 28th April 2006. The Status Conferences for the
13 two appellants were held separately to accommodate certain lapses of time
14 relating in particular to change in Mr. Jokic's assigned counsel.
15 Today's Status Conference is being held jointly for the two
16 appellants in order to advance the objective of synchronising and
17 streamlining the two appeals. Mr. Blagojevic has waived his application
18 over the 120-day rule so as to facilitate the scheduling of this
19 conference with Mr. Jokic. I wish to thank the parties and particularly
20 Mr. Blagojevic and his counsel for their understanding and cooperation in
21 scheduling this joint conference.
22 As you know, the purposes of a Status Conference are two-fold:
23 First, to allow the appellants to express concerns relating to the appeal
24 and detention conditions; and secondly, to update the appellants with
25 respect to the status of each case. I shall begin with the second of
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1 these objectives, namely an update.
2 This case involves three appeals filed by Mr. Jokic,
3 Mr. Blagojevic, and the Prosecution. The judgement of the Trial Chamber
4 in this case was delivered orally on 17th January 2005. The written
5 judgement followed thereafter on 24th January 2005.
6 Now, the briefing on the Prosecution's appeal and the briefing on
7 Mr. Blagojevic's appeal were already complete prior to the last Status
8 Conferences. The main briefing in Mr. Jokic's case was completed prior to
9 the last Status Conference. Mr. Jokic's prior counsel have filed a notice
10 of intention not to file a reply to the Prosecution's consolidated
11 response brief and instead to apply orally at the appeal hearing.
12 However, at Mr. Jokic's Status Conference on 28th April 2006, Mr. Jokic's
13 new counsel, Mr. Murphy, indicated an intention to file a motion to amend
14 Mr. Jokic's notice of appeal and appeal brief. This motion was filed on
15 15 May 2005; on 26th June 2006 the motion was granted in part. The
16 Prosecution was permitted to file additional submissions in response to
17 the amendments.
18 On 6th July 2006, Mr. Jokic filed his third amended notice of
19 appeal and his third amended appellant brief. The Prosecution filed a
20 confidential and partially ex parte amended consolidated response brief on
21 20 July 2006, and Mr. Jokic filed -- replied confidentially on 2 August
22 2006, as about two weeks ago.
23 Now, there are two pending motions in this case; they both relate
24 to Mr. Jokic's appeal. On 20 July the Prosecution moved to strike one of
25 Mr. Jokic's amended brief, Count 1, that is the ground relating to
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1 mens rea. Mr. Jokic filed a response to this motion on 24 July 2006.
2 Prosecution has not filed a reply to the response. I take it that no
3 reply will be filed. The time for a reply has expired.
4 Meanwhile on 2 August 2006, Mr. Jokic filed a motion to strike or
5 require redrafting of parts of the Prosecution's amended consolidated
6 response brief. The Prosecution responded on 14th August 2006. Mr. Jokic
7 filed a reply on 16 August 2006, last week. Both motions must be
8 considered by the full Appeals Chamber and will be decided in due course.
9 I understand that Mr. Jokic's motion relates to the question of the
10 explicitness of the Prosecution's pleadings. There is a question as to
11 whether distinction has been drawn between the Trial Chamber's findings
12 and the arguments of the party in question.
13 MS. LOUKAS: Yes, that's correct, Your Honour.
14 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Thank you, Miss. Thank you.
15 Now, as I said, these motions are to be decided by the full
16 Appeals Chamber, as counsel will appreciate.
17 Now, do any of the parties have remaining concerns in this
18 respect, that is in respect of the status of the appeals? Once these two
19 motions which are outstanding have been decided, the Appeals Chamber will
20 proceed in the normal way to fix a trial -- a hearing date for the
21 appeals.
22 MS. LOUKAS: No, Your Honour, we do not have any further matters
23 in relation to that question.
24 There's just one matter I might raise at the appropriate juncture
25 just in relation to the Prosecution's third status report and the question
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1 of some indices that might be supplied by the Prosecution.
2 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Yes. The Prosecution has submitted a report,
3 a third report, status report, yesterday.
4 MS. LOUKAS: That's correct, yes.
5 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: And you do well to refer to it, if I may say
6 so.
7 MS. LOUKAS: Yes.
8 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Do you have any observations?
9 MS. LOUKAS: Yes. I have two observations, Your Honour.
10 Firstly, the Prosecution refer in their third status report to the
11 existence of an index of a particular archive from the Ministry of
12 Defence, and we would be happy to receive a copy of that particular index.
13 Additionally, in the third status report, the Prosecution referred to an
14 index that they're working upon in relation to this material, and we would
15 also be happy to receive that particular index.
16 And prior to Your Honour coming on to the Bench, I can indicate
17 that I had a short discuss with Ms. Margetts from the Prosecution, and I
18 have indicated wherever indices of this nature exist, we would be most
19 happy to receive them in view of the voluminous nature of the material.
20 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: That's reasonable.
21 MS. LOUKAS: And that's the matter I wanted to raise in relation
22 to the third status report.
23 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: There are two indices, one prepared by the
24 authorities keeping the archives and one described as a work product.
25 MS. LOUKAS: Indeed.
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1 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Prepared by the Prosecution itself on --
2 MS. LOUKAS: Precisely, Your Honour.
3 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: The Prosecution's offered to deliver the
4 latter, and it is I think under an obligation to deliver the former.
5 MS. LOUKAS: Indeed, Your Honour. Indeed.
6 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Let's hear from --
7 MS. MARGETTS: Yes, Your Honour, if I may clarify. We have an
8 archive from the ministry in relation to the material in the archive and
9 we will be providing the Defence with a copy, as they wish, maybe as early
10 as of today. We can discuss this after the Status Conference.
11 Secondly, with respect to the material that we have brought back
12 and made available to the Defence on the electronic disclosure suite,
13 we've prepared indexes of that material which we will also be happy to
14 provide at a later point today.
15 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Splendid.
16 MS. MARGETTS: Thank you.
17 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: This is the kind of cooperation that the
18 Court would like to see existing between the parties.
19 Now, so far then for the status of the appeals. Now I proceed to
20 ask whether the appellants themselves have any questions to raise
21 concerning the conditions of their detention and any other relevant
22 matters.
23 THE APPELLANT BLAGOJEVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, as for my
24 health, I'm receiving therapy and my health is within normal bounds.
25 But another issue I would like to raise is my deepest concern with
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1 respect to the fact that this Court is not dealing with my submissions
2 that I have submitted to the court, quite a number of them. The fact is
3 that before this Chamber in this courtroom I was charged with crimes,
4 accused of crimes, and I insist that this issue be dealt with. However,
5 the Court is persistently disregarding this issue, and I am not receiving
6 any answer that would clarify my prospects, and that's a deep concern for
7 me.
8 You presided over the Appeals Chamber that made this decision of
9 the 15th September 2003, and it is on the basis of that decision, as if
10 according to some procedure, another two documents were made, one of the
11 7th November 2003 and another on the 15th of February 2004. If we look at
12 the documents from November and February 2004, we see quite a few things
13 that are inconsistent with truth and justice, at least not in the way that
14 this decision was made. And I kindly ask you to take that decision which
15 has been redacted and which conceals a lot of the truth and that decision
16 is responsible for keeping at my side a lawyer who was not honourable and
17 who did not defend me properly, and that decision resulted in many other
18 decisions being taken to my detriment. I kindly ask this Chamber to
19 finally make things clear in this case before the public as well, and the
20 public I believe has in its interest that all be clear in this case. And
21 I demand from my counsel that they continue to work on this. But please
22 believe me I will not give up whatever your decisions. I want a clear
23 decision that will clearly spell out whether I'm a criminal or not and
24 what needs to be done with me if it turns out that I am a criminal. I
25 either am a criminal or I'm not a criminal; I want the Court to tell me
Page 80
1 that clearly. I want the concept to be fully clear and for the Court to
2 spell out the meaning of that concept in this court.
3 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Blagojevic. You
4 have referred to your counsel. Are you referring to your present counsel?
5 THE APPELLANT BLAGOJEVIC: [Interpretation] A certain Karnavas.
6 That's when the decision was made.
7 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: We should clarify that you are not referring
8 to your present counsel?
9 THE APPELLANT BLAGOJEVIC: [Interpretation] No, I am now asking my
10 current counsel to take up what I have just presented here and to help me
11 come to a just solution.
12 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: The next point I'm a little unclear about,
13 you referred in the translation reaching me to my presiding on the Appeals
14 Chamber which made a decision on 15th September 2003. Are you correct
15 that I presided?
16 THE APPELLANT BLAGOJEVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, yes.
17 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: I thought this decision -- the Trial
18 Chamber's decision was rendered on 17th January 2005.
19 THE APPELLANT BLAGOJEVIC: [Interpretation] Yes.
20 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Mr. Domazet, I'm a little lost in this.
21 MR. DOMAZET: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I will try to explain
22 what Mr. Blagojevic means.
23 When he talks about the decision of the 15th of September, that is
24 the decision by the Appeals Chamber rejecting Mr. Blagojevic's motion to
25 change his Defence team when -- and this was decided on the 15th of
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1 September, 2003.
2 On the 7th of November, 2003, the explanation was issued, but the
3 February one is actually a redacted explanation. Mr. Blagojevic's problem
4 boils down to the fact that it has not yet been decided regarding the
5 complaint regarding Mr. Karnavas -- the matter of the division of fees has
6 not been resolved yet. This is what he would like to have clarified. He
7 would like to have the matter resolved whether it was his fault or whether
8 it was the fault of the person who stated that it was so, and then
9 retracted on that statement. This is a matter that is of great importance
10 when deciding on the matter of whether his Defence should be replaced or
11 not. He's worried because that particular issue was never resolved. He
12 would like to have that resolved before the appeals proceedings go into
13 the decision phase by the Appeals Chamber. I think that this is what Mr.
14 Blagojevic was trying to say.
15 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: I'm grateful, Mr. Domazet, for clarifying the
16 matter and for bringing the details to my attention. I think Mr. Domazet
17 will appreciate that these are matters for the full Court, the full
18 Appeals Chamber, to address its mind to them.
19 I can only say that I'm glad to hear from Mr. Blagojevic that his
20 physical conditions are within normal bounds, and therefore the appeal
21 will take its course and follow any decisions made by the Appeals Chamber.
22 For the rest, we can only re-affirm that the representations made
23 by Mr. Blagojevic will be taken into account by the Appeals Chamber when
24 it comes to make its decision.
25 Now, are there any representations from Mr. Jokic?
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1 MS. LOUKAS: I can indicate, Your Honour, on behalf of Mr. Jokic
2 that there are no matters to raise in that regard.
3 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Then if there are no matters to be raised by
4 the Prosecution.
5 MS. MARGETTS: No. Thank you, Your Honour, no matters to be
6 raised.
7 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Then I would say --
8 MS. LOUKAS: Sorry, Your Honour. Just prior to the end of the
9 Status Conference, there is one matter I should raise, and that's just a
10 date that appears wrongly on the transcript, and that is at page 3,
11 line 11, the date 15th of May, 2005 appears; that should be 15th of May,
12 2006.
13 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Then Prosecution, you have any observations
14 to make on that statement?
15 MS. MARGETTS: No, Your Honour. That seems to be correct.
16 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: That is corrected. It will stand
17 accordingly.
18 MS. LOUKAS: Thank you, Your Honour.
19 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: Now, that being the status of matters today,
20 we will take the adjournment now and hope that the proceedings will
21 eventuate at the hearing of the appeal as they would normally do.
22 Thank you.
23 --- Whereupon the Status Conference
24 adjourned at 8.27 a.m.
25