Page 1437
1 Monday, 4 March 2002
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.31 a.m.
5 JUDGE MAY: Yes, Mr. Nice.
6 MR. NICE: Your Honour, before the witness is called, just a few
7 administrative matters. Firstly and briefly, pre-trial brief due in
8 respect of Croatia/Bosnia. The Chamber knows that there is a limit of 50
9 pages unless extension is granted. The Chamber will recall that in
10 Kosovo, we stuck to 50 pages and didn't seek any extension. For
11 Croatia/Bosnia, I would ask that the Rule be interpreted so that we may
12 have 50 pages per indictment, if that's acceptable to the Chamber.
13 JUDGE MAY: Yes.
14 MR. NICE: Thank you very much. The second point is a matter of
15 information and so that we don't lose sight of it. The Chamber recalls
16 that the Rule 68 reports that we file come with identification of the
17 parameters we are applying to fulfil to the best our ability and in a
18 reasonable way the 68 duty. It seems prudent fairly soon for us to review
19 the parameters, in light of the cross-examination of the accused, to make
20 sure that they don't need revision, and so I will serve a report again
21 comparatively soon but with that objective in mind. And it may be helpful
22 for us to have that in mind as cross-examination is developing.
23 Third point which comes in two parts is both a general and a
24 specific. As the Chamber knows, the accused has told us that he has a
25 room full of the material we've served on him and which he does not turn
Page 1438
1 to. The Chamber will also know that, as of the end of last week, the
2 accused has sought, via the Registry, from us witness statements of
3 witnesses who are about to be called, and we have made those available
4 through the Registry to him.
5 Now, in due course, there's going to be a very great deal of
6 material served in respect of the Croatia/Bosnia indictment in accordance
7 with the Rules, and we hope that that service will be effective for the
8 accused to prepare his defence and for him to prepare for witnesses when
9 they come. And we hope that it will not be necessary for us then to have
10 to serve everything according to a different routine, and we would ask the
11 Chamber not to make any decision today but, in due course, to perhaps
12 raise the matter with the accused, because if he wants disclosure on a
13 different basis that is more helpful to him in his work and preparation,
14 then that can be done, but it doesn't seem to us entirely desirable that
15 things should be being disclosed once to no effect and then on an entirely
16 different basis.
17 That brings me to the immediate problem -- I'm probably speaking
18 too fast and I apologise.
19 That brings me to the immediate problem. Next week, it is
20 intended to call the first expert, Patrick Ball, and a witness,
21 Lord Ashdown, whose material will cover not only Kosovo but will cover
22 part of matters relevant to the Croatia/Bosnia indictment. One can't, I
23 think, respectfully -- respectably expect the witness to come twice; he
24 can only come once. So that the accused is now on notice that those are
25 the two witnesses, or two of the major witnesses for next week.
Page 1439
1 So far as Patrick Ball is concerned, the accused has had the
2 report for months and he has notice that we intended to call him at this
3 time for months as well. Technically, I think in terms of filing his
4 report with the Chamber, we may be four days short of the required 30-day
5 limit for service, and so we would seek relief in respect of that. But
6 what we are more concerned to do is to ensure that the accused has the
7 material or can find the material that he may need to look at to deal with
8 that witness, because this is not just, obviously, a witness who's coming
9 to give an account of something happened in a village. It's material
10 he'll need to look at. What I am in a position to do, by immediately
11 after the break, is to serve or to make available to the accused a
12 schedule that sets out where he may find, according to the dates of the
13 service, all the material that relate to this particular witness.
14 JUDGE MAY: Why don't we simply ensure that he has, towards the
15 end of this week, the material? If need be, the Chamber will do it, or if
16 you want, perhaps you could do it yourself. I think it would be much
17 easier for him.
18 MR. NICE: Very well. I'll deal with that. And the same will
19 apply with Lord Ashdown as well.
20 JUDGE MAY: Yes.
21 MR. NICE: So I'll simply serve his material again.
22 JUDGE MAY: It may be convenient to do it at the end of the week
23 so he can look at it over the weekend.
24 MR. NICE: Well, I'll get it to him as soon as may be.
25 JUDGE MAY: Let us know when you're going to serve it.
Page 1440
1 MR. NICE: Certainly.
2 JUDGE MAY: Lord Ashdown, of course, is not an expert; he's merely
3 another witness.
4 MR. NICE: Correct.
5 JUDGE MAY: But as far as the expert is concerned, we have the
6 report and that can very largely stand as the evidence in chief. Do you
7 want to ask the witness any questions?
8 MR. NICE: I should probably want him to summarise the effect of
9 his evidence, but it may not be necessary to go into it in any great
10 detail other than that. But as a matter of public record, it would be
11 important to get him to deal with it to that extent.
12 There's another expert, again whose reports have been available
13 for months and in respect of whom the accused has had notice for months
14 that he was to be called, Ridelmayer, R-I-D-E-L-M-A-Y-E-R. His report was
15 filed on the 28th of February, and accordingly, depending on whether we
16 call him next week - I think unlikely, or the week after more
17 probable - there will be some short service in respect of which we would
18 seek relief. But again, no prejudice to the accused.
19 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Well, I think as far as Mr. Ridelmayer is
20 concerned, not next week, but the week after would be better, because
21 we've only just got the report ourselves. But we will allow short
22 services.
23 MR. NICE: Thank you very much. And then, finally, the
24 Prosecution's paper on the scope of cross-examination will be with you by,
25 I hope, the middle of the week.
Page 1441
1 JUDGE MAY: Very well.
2 Let me deal with some practical matters. We will hear the
3 argument on Rule 92 bis on the statements, the written statements, that
4 is, and their admissibility, on Thursday afternoon at a convenient time.
5 There will be no need for anybody to repeat what's already in the
6 documents which have been served, so I hope it can be relatively quick.
7 MR. NICE: Your Honour, Thursday afternoon I think we're --
8 JUDGE MAY: We're not here. Quite right. Thursday morning it
9 will have to be. Yes, we're sitting 9.00 to 1.45 from today onwards.
10 Yes.
11 In that connection, the accused asked us to consider the position
12 about 5.00 sittings, and we have done so. And in the light of his
13 representations and in the light of various other consideration and the
14 difficulties of sitting late for members of the staff and others, we have
15 reconsidered that, and the result is this: that we won't sit until 5.00.
16 We will decide on a daily basis whether it's necessary to sit beyond the
17 normal time of 4.00 or so to 4.30 on a particular day, and we shall not
18 sit today beyond 4.00.
19 MR. NICE: Your Honour, I'm obliged.
20 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Can we have the first witness, please.
21 MR. NICE: Ms. Romano will call this first witness.
22 MS. ROMANO: The Prosecution calls Hasan Pruthi.
23 [The witness entered court]
24 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Let the witness take the declaration. Yes, if
25 you'd read it out, please.
Page 1442
1 WITNESS: HASAN PRUTHI
2 [Witness answered through interpreter]
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak
4 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
5 JUDGE MAY: If you'd like to take a seat.
6 Examined by Ms. Romano:
7 Q. Mr. Pruthi, can you please state your full name for the Court.
8 A. Hasan Pruthi.
9 Q. You were born in Gjakove on the 10th of October, 1947
10 married, with three children?
11 A. I'm born on 10th of June [sic] -- of April [sic], 1947, father of
12 three children.
13 Q. Excuse me. I think I have a problem with the translation. It's
14 June or April?
15 A. October. I was born in October.
16 Q. Okay. So, Mr. Pruthi, you were born in October of 1947?
17 A. That's right.
18 Q. You're a lawyer and you're currently working as a legal advisor
19 for the Norwegian Council of Refugees?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And you worked as a judge, first in the Municipal Court of Gjakove
22 from 1976 to 1978, and after, in Gjakove Business Court
23 A. That's right.
24 Q. What's your ethnicity?
25 A. Albanian.
Page 1443
1 Q. Were most of the people in Gjakove Albanians?
2 A. That's right.
3 Q. Were there Serbs in Gjakove?
4 A. There were a few Serbs in Gjakove.
5 Q. Where Gjakove is located, Mr. Pruthi?
6 A. Gjakove is in -- is in the southern part of Kosova. It's between
7 Peja and Prizren.
8 Q. Do you have any military training or experience?
9 A. I merely completed my military service.
10 Q. When was that?
11 A. I completed military service in 1973 to 1974.
12 Q. Mr. Pruthi, during all the time that you worked as a lawyer and as
13 a judge in Kosovo, more specifically in Gjakove, did you notice any
14 difference in treatment between Serbs and Albanians?
15 A. Of course I noticed a difference. I might say that in 1991, the
16 Serbian parliament at that time made a discriminatory decision according
17 to which the Commercial Court of Gjakove district was dissolved and about
18 40 employees were left on the streets without work.
19 Q. Mr. Pruthi, why you say that this decision was a discriminatory
20 decision?
21 A. Because this court was an adjudicating court, and this decision
22 was taken at a time when the Federal Ministry of Yugoslavia had given --
23 had greatly praised the work of this court, and there was no reason to
24 dissolve it at all.
25 Q. What was the work in the Commercial Court
Page 1444
1 the Commercial Court?
2 A. The district Commercial Court was responsible to settle economic
3 disputes and to register firms.
4 Q. Were there a lot of applications by Albanians to register their
5 firms?
6 A. There were applications to register firms because this was a year
7 when the law on enterprises came into effect. It was the time of Ante
8 Markovic. And according to this law, people were given the opportunity to
9 register private companies and to turn their property and to start joint
10 enterprises with public enterprises. So this court was responsible for
11 enforcing this law and registering various kinds of property.
12 Q. And how did the abolishment of this court by the Serb parliament
13 affect the Albanians?
14 A. Because this court extended its authority over the entire plane of
15 Dukagjin. It was involved in administering the economic life of this
16 entire part of Kosova. So the abolition of this court, it was a blow to
17 this entire part of Kosova.
18 Q. Mr. Pruthi, if the Albanians wanted to register their private
19 business at that time, with the abolishment of that court, where they had
20 to go?
21 A. At that time, there were two courts working in Kosova. There was
22 the Pristina economic court and the one in Gjakove which was abolished.
23 Albanians at that time who wanted to register their court [sic] at the
24 Economic Court in Pristina were instructed and were unable to register
25 their firms because the officers of that court refused to register them
Page 1445
1 after the Gjakove court was abolished.
2 Q. Are you saying, Mr. Pruthi, that it was difficult for the
3 Albanians to register their property in just one court?
4 A. Yes, because they couldn't register these firms. At the time that
5 I'm talking about, they couldn't register these firms at the court in
6 Pristina.
7 Q. There was any particular reason why they couldn't register their
8 firms in Pristina?
9 A. According to the rules, any refusal of an application by citizens,
10 any registration of a company needed a written reason of any failure to
11 register it, and the court didn't supply these but merely refused them
12 orally.
13 Q. Also while -- during the time that you practised law in Kosovo,
14 was there any requirement for the trade of property?
15 A. Yes, there was. This was a time when the Serbian parliament had
16 introduced the law on the trading of property in -- under special
17 circumstances, which covered the territory of Kosova, which required a
18 special approval from the Finance Ministry in Belgrade
19 Q. And this requirement was mandatory to everyone, to Albanians,
20 Serbs, to everyone in Gjakove; is that correct?
21 A. It was binding on everybody, but according to the discriminatory
22 law, it prevented the trade in property on a daily basis, and citizens
23 could not sell their property without obtaining prior approval of this
24 ministry.
25 Q. Mr. Pruthi, what was the difference in treatment between Albanians
Page 1446
1 and Serbs concerning those requirements?
2 A. The treatment was not the same, in fact, because the applications
3 of Albanians dragged and were prolonged and were not settled for a long
4 time, while Serbian applications were settled immediately. And a large
5 number of Albanian applications were also refused.
6 Q. Do you know -- do you personally know Albanians who had problems
7 in obtaining this authorisation?
8 A. There were plenty of cases -- I can't give you a name, but there
9 were many cases in which applications were refused by this ministry.
10 Q. Are you able to provide a percentage between Albanians and Serbs?
11 A. What kind of percentage do you mean?
12 Q. How many applications between -- how many Serbian applications
13 were admitted in comparison with how many Albanian applications were
14 denied?
15 A. You mean by this ministry?
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. The Serbian percentage, when I'm talking about Kosova, there were
18 fewer applications, of course, from Kosova, from Serbs, than from
19 Albanians. But as I said before, the Albanian applications were refused
20 and some others were settled, but over a very long period.
21 Q. And all the Serbian applications were admitted?
22 A. The Serbs didn't dare sell their property in Kosova as long as
23 this law was in effect.
24 Q. While performing your duties as a lawyer and a judge as well, what
25 was the language used in applications and documents?
Page 1447
1 A. As you know, before the overthrow of Kosova's autonomy, Albanian
2 was an official language, but not afterwards, so that communications in
3 the district courts were made only in Serbian. I'm talking about the
4 municipal court in Gjakove. And applications in writing always had to be
5 made in the Serbian language. If they were made in Albanian, they were
6 immediately sent back and refused by the office.
7 Q. And did the Albanian population complain about that situation?
8 A. Some lawyers in our municipality complained to the justice
9 ministry, the republican one, of course, but they never received a reply,
10 even though it was the right of the Albanians to make applications in
11 their own language. But this right was not recognised.
12 Q. Thank you, Mr. Pruthi. What do you know about the KLA?
13 A. The KLA was a force that appeared during the war in Kosova, a
14 force that was -- stood by the unarmed people who were suffering, were
15 defenceless, and they always defended the population who were in such
16 danger from the murderous Serbian forces.
17 Q. Mr. Pruthi, you said it was a force that appeared during the war.
18 Which war are you referring to?
19 A. I'm talking about the criminal attacks of Serbian forces and
20 Serbian police in Kosova.
21 Q. Before we get there, I wanted to ask you: Were you associated to
22 the KLA at any time?
23 A. I was not connected with the KLA at any time, and I never saw KLA
24 troops in my city at the time when the war broke out, but it was present
25 on the outskirts of the city. It wasn't able to enter the town at that
Page 1448
1 time because of the great presence of Serbian army and police inside the
2 town.
3 Q. Mr. Pruthi, did you support the KLA?
4 A. The activities of the KLA in protecting the population from crimes
5 and from murders, as I said before, at the hands of the Serbian police and
6 army, of course I supported, because its activities were in the interests
7 of the population, who were totally defenceless at that time.
8 Q. And did you materialise this support in any way?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Mr. Pruthi, can you briefly describe how was the life in Albania
11 immediately before the NATO campaign?
12 A. It was very tense. Life was -- it was a miserable life which
13 can't be summarised in a few words. The people lived in tension and fear
14 and were shut up in their homes. Only their needs for daily supplies for
15 their families and for groceries -- one member of the family would have to
16 go out for the market, fetch supplies, but otherwise it was impossible to
17 go out on the streets because of the major presence of Serbian military
18 equipment and the police.
19 Q. Mr. Pruthi, when was that? Which time did you see this presence
20 of Serbian army and police in your town?
21 A. I saw this presence from 1988, when the roads were filled with
22 Serbian army and police vehicles who patrolled up and down the streets all
23 day and all night.
24 Q. You referred to Serbian army and police. How do you know they
25 were soldiers and police?
Page 1449
1 A. You could see by their uniforms. Because the army had one uniform
2 and the police had another, you could see who were policemen and who were
3 soldiers.
4 Q. Can you describe the uniforms, the police uniforms and the army
5 uniforms?
6 A. Of course; the police had a blue uniform, camouflage, while the
7 Serbian army had green uniforms, also camouflage.
8 MS. ROMANO: Can I please have the witness shown the Exhibit 18.
9 Q. Mr. Pruthi, the usher will show you a series of photographs
10 containing photographs of uniforms. Can you please take a look on those
11 photos and see if you can identify any of the uniforms, a photo similar of
12 the uniforms that you saw belonging to the police and the army.
13 A. For example, here's a police uniform, a Serbian police uniform
14 here, and in this photograph up here.
15 Q. Which number, Mr. Pruthi?
16 A. Number 6 and number 4.
17 Q. And the army?
18 A. This is the uniform of the Serbian police, number 6. And this is
19 also a kind of uniform of the Serbian police, number 4.
20 Q. Can you identify the uniform that the army soldiers wore at that
21 time, looking again at the photos?
22 A. I can. Here we are. Number 9, that uniform.
23 Q. Thank you. You mentioned vehicles, also equipment. What kind?
24 A. I'm talking about police and military vehicles of various kinds -
25 trucks, Pinzgauers, jeeps of different kinds - and their weapons were
Page 1450
1 generally automatic rifles.
2 MS. ROMANO: Can I please have the witness shown Exhibit 17 and
3 also, after, 21.
4 Q. Mr. Pruthi, can you look at the photos that the usher will put
5 before you. And there are a series of photos of military and police
6 vehicles. Can you see among them if you can identify any photo of a
7 vehicle that you saw at that time?
8 A. Yes, of course I can show you. There are various vehicles in
9 front of me which I saw at this time. I will start here. This first kind
10 and this third kind, tanks, and this kind -- these other kinds of vehicles
11 that I saw at this time.
12 Q. Mr. Pruthi, can you please indicate the one and --
13 A. And the jeep.
14 Q. Can you indicate one by one, and the usher will put on the ELMO.
15 A. Yes, I can. Vehicle number 7. Vehicle number 10.
16 Q. Can you also indicate if you know what kind of vehicle it was and
17 if it was a military vehicle or a police vehicle.
18 A. These were both police and military vehicles. The two kinds were
19 together. I have these kinds here in front of us in this photograph.
20 There was also a kind of jeep that they used at this time.
21 Q. Can you please proceed and indicate the numbers and the vehicles.
22 A. Number 2, number 15, number 10.
23 Q. Thank you. You saw all this equipment, all these vehicles at that
24 time around your town, in your town. Where did you see them?
25 A. You could see them on all the streets of the city, parading
Page 1451
1 throughout the day, and you could hear the noise of them as they moved
2 during the night too.
3 Q. You mentioned also automatic weapons. I will again ask you to
4 look at some photos and see if you can identify any of the weapons that
5 you saw at that time.
6 A. That time, I saw the gun number 4, the gun number 1 and number 2.
7 And there were also kinds of cannon shown, and the kind shown in
8 photograph number 1.
9 Q. So you mentioned -- the first ones you mentioned belong to sheet
10 A, and the cannon belongs to sheet B; is that correct?
11 MS. ROMANO: Mr. Usher, the A and B.
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That's right. That's right.
13 MS. ROMANO:
14 Q. Thank you. During 1998 and beginning of 1999, do you remember
15 seeing people from other villages coming to Gjakove, coming to live in
16 Gjakove?
17 A. Yes. I remember well the flight of a part of the population from
18 the villages roundabout Gjakove in 1998. These people streamed toward
19 Gjakove and were pushed by Serbian police and military forces and were
20 forced to leave their houses. These people told how they were chased by
21 Serbian police and army, how their houses were burned, and some were
22 killed by their fellow villagers and were always taunted by the words and
23 were told to leave their house -- to leave their houses as soon as
24 possible and go to Albania because what were they looking for here in
25 Kosova? The population told how they were obliged by this horror to leave
Page 1452
1 their villages.
2 Q. Did you personally speak with the villagers that arrived in
3 Gjakove?
4 A. I spoke to these villagers personally because we were helping to
5 accommodate them in various houses in Gjakove at this time.
6 Q. And did they tell who was pushing them away from their villages?
7 A. Yes, they did. They showed us who was chasing them. They told us
8 that the police and the army, the Serbian police and army, were driving
9 them away. They had not yet left their homes when they saw their homes in
10 fire. They saw it with their own eyes, and that they were horror-struck
11 at the sight, and this forced them to leave their own homes and take the
12 street of emigration.
13 Q. Mr. Pruthi, where were you when the NATO bombing campaign
14 started?
15 A. I was in Gjakove then, in my own home.
16 Q. How many people were you in your home?
17 A. My own family.
18 Q. Can you describe the members of your family?
19 A. Yes, I can. My wife and my young daughter. When late at night we
20 heard a shot, and then after that shot, I went out to see what was
21 happening and then I heard the second shot coming from a hill overlooking
22 the town called the hill of Cabrat, and then I heard the counter-fire by
23 the Serbian forces which were deployed there. I heard different sounds of
24 anti-aircraft fire, firing at the NATO planes flying over the city of
25 Gjakove.
Page 1453
1 Q. Mr. Pruthi, did you hear or see the airplanes flying over Gjakove?
2 A. Yes, I did.
3 Q. And what time was that?
4 A. It was about 9.00 at night.
5 Q. Was any part of the town hit by the bombing?
6 A. No, it was not. They bombed the depots, the military barracks,
7 and some other depots, military depots, which were located at Cabrat Hill.
8 These were the two targets hit by NATO then, at that night.
9 Q. These two targets, they were far away from the town? They were
10 near or they were far away from the town?
11 A. The Cabrat was near my home, whereas the barracks and the depots
12 were in the periphery of the city, in the outskirts of the city. On the
13 next day, we found out that they were hit by NATO that night.
14 Q. For how long did the NATO planes fly over Gjakove?
15 A. For a short time, I would say.
16 Q. And do you remember what time did they leave?
17 A. Maybe 15 past 9.00 or 20 past 9.00.
18 Q. And what happened after the NATO airplanes left?
19 A. They left, and then after the fire of -- anti-aircraft fire by the
20 Serbian army, everything became calm for a couple of hours. It was at
21 about 12.00, at midnight, when I saw a great light in the fire [as
22 interpreted], and I was curious to see what it was. I went to the second
23 floor of my own house to see, and across my house, in the direction of
24 Carshia, old Carshia of the town, I saw a great fire and great smoke,
25 accompanied by shots of all kinds, and they were found in objects, in
Page 1454
1 facilities that were set on fire.
2 Q. How far was this old part of the town from your house?
3 A. About 400 metres.
4 Q. And can you describe exactly what you saw from your window?
5 A. I saw the old part of the town, Carshia e Madhe, otherwise known
6 by this name. It was all set on fire. It has cultural, historical value,
7 and that night it was all on fire.
8 Q. Do you know what caused the fire?
9 A. I was informed that it was the Serbian police that set fire to
10 this part of the town using a special substance, to all the stores of the
11 marketplace, and they also killed some people living there, whose houses
12 are found in this part of the town. Several people were killed, among
13 whom well-known Doctor Izet -- in front of his own family members. Izet
14 Hima.
15 Q. How do you know that, Mr. Pruthi? Who told you that?
16 A. His own family members told this. They testified to his murder to
17 the Council for the Protection of Human Rights and Freedoms, where I was
18 also present.
19 Q. Did the doctor -- was he killed at the same time while the old
20 part of the town was burning and in flames?
21 A. Yes. At the same time, Dr. Hima was killed, in the most brutal
22 manner, in front of the eyes of his family.
23 Q. Mr. Pruthi, at the time you saw the flames was a very few hours
24 after you saw the NATO airplanes. How do you know the burning of the old
25 centre was not a result of the NATO bombing?
Page 1455
1 A. The flames appeared much later than the NATO planes left. This
2 was certain, a certain fact. There are hundreds of people who saw with
3 their own eyes Serbian police setting fire to this old part of the town.
4 Hundreds and hundreds of witnesses have been there. So it's a fact that
5 everybody has been testifying to.
6 Q. Thank you. Coming back to your house in your neighbourhood at
7 that time, on the next morning you remained at home?
8 A. Yes, I did. I used to stay at home then, and very much -- was
9 very much worried about what was happening. On the next day, we saw
10 Serbian police and military patrolling the streets of the town, and only
11 some small -- some people went to some stores to buy some things they
12 needed for their own daily living. In the evening --
13 Q. I'm going to interrupt you, Mr. Pruthi. You said police
14 patrolling. What kind of uniform were they wearing? Were they any
15 different from the ones you had already seen in the photos?
16 A. No. They were the same uniforms I showed you in the pictures a
17 while ago.
18 Q. What exactly were they doing there?
19 A. They were just patrolling with their cars in the streets of the
20 town, were seeing on both, you know, sides of the street what happened.
21 They struck fear among the citizens, and nobody dared leave their homes.
22 Everybody stayed at home after they heard what happened one night before.
23 They were all horror-stricken and stayed at home.
24 Q. Did you have any contact with your neighbours at that time?
25 A. Yes, I did have contacts with my neighbours then, and we were
Page 1456
1 discussing together what we would do. We were counting the minutes,
2 fearing that the worst might happen to us.
3 Q. And what happened?
4 A. On the second night, after the lights went out, it was about 8.00
5 when gunshots started, coming from automatic rifles, a lot of fire shots.
6 We stood at home, my wife, my daughter and myself. It was around 11.00
7 when I heard a noise coming from the yard of my neighbour. It was a noise
8 of, I mean, people talking. I went to the window to see what was
9 happening. I saw a large crowd of people gathered in the yard. I opened
10 the window to see better. Then I saw that the wall dividing my home from
11 my neighbour, there in the yard were a large number of people. And the
12 shots coming from the police in our street made us afraid lest that they
13 could come to our own homes. So I went to the yard of my neighbour and
14 joined the group of people who had gathered there and who had come from
15 the next adjoining street, from that part of the city where the houses
16 were on fire and from where people were driven out of their homes. They
17 told us that they were coming from those burning homes and that they had
18 left behind dead people.
19 Q. How long did you stay there?
20 A. We stayed there until before dawn, until the cars in which the
21 Serbian police were withdrew. When the police withdrew, then we returned
22 to our own homes. But while we were staying in that yard, I heard with my
23 own ears the voices of police speaking and shouting, because they were
24 close by the houses. They were telling people, "Go away. This is not
25 your country. This is Serbia. Go to Albania," in a loud, shrieking
Page 1457
1 voice. It was a sad sight to see. Then we went home to my own house with
2 some neighbours to have some rest.
3 Q. Mr. Pruthi, was anybody hurt or injured during this time?
4 A. It was 6.00 in the morning. The wife of my cousin came to my
5 house. She was crying, and she told me that her husband was killed, and
6 she asked me to help her. I --
7 Q. What is the name of your cousin?
8 A. His name is Shevqet Pruthi. I rose to my feet and went with her.
9 We went out in the street even though it was very dangerous because the
10 streets were rife with police, Serb police. And then we went to her home,
11 and she showed me the dead body of her husband behind the house. It was
12 lying on the floor, on the ground. And I saw that both his soles were
13 damaged from the fire of the automatic rifles, and part of his hand was
14 also damaged, and his body was full of holes in the chest and in some
15 other parts.
16 Q. Did his wife -- did his wife see what happened to him?
17 A. She didn't see what happened. This criminal deed was committed in
18 the very eyes of his daughter. Arta is her name. She saw her father
19 killed in front of her eyes. She saw her father die in front of her eyes.
20 Q. Mr. Pruthi, did you leave your house again?
21 A. After we buried my cousin, I returned home, and then with my wife,
22 we were discussing what to do since we felt that we were in jeopardy
23 staying in my neighbourhood since about 17 people had got killed that
24 night. So we were wondering what to do.
25 Q. So what did you do?
Page 1458
1 A. What --
2 Q. Is there any problem with translation?
3 A. Together with my wife and my daughter, we went to my sister's, who
4 lives in another neighbourhood in the vicinity of my neighbourhood, and we
5 took shelter there.
6 Q. For how long did you -- first, where is your sister's house
7 located? How far was it from your house?
8 A. My sister's house is located in the neighbourhood called Qerim,
9 about 200 metres away from my neighbourhood.
10 Q. For how long did you stay in your sister's house?
11 A. In my sister's house, we stayed from the 26th of March up to 2nd
12 of April.
13 Q. How many people were with you in your sister's house?
14 A. My brother, my youngest brother; and the members of my sister's
15 family. For some time, my second brother stayed there, but then he left.
16 Q. During the time you stayed there, what did you see happening in
17 the neighbourhood?
18 A. During all this time, from 8.00 fire shots started. First the
19 light went out and then automatic shots started. It was the sign that the
20 Serbian police began its operations in various neighbourhoods of the
21 city.
22 Q. Mr. Pruthi, did you see who was shooting?
23 A. I didn't see who did the shooting, but on the 1st of April, when
24 the Serbian police came to a neighbour, neighbour of my sister, to the
25 house of the neighbour nearby my sister's home, they threw some substance
Page 1459
1 in the two upper floors of my -- of his house, and then I saw the flames
2 engulfing all the house.
3 Q. How do you know -- during the time, you said you heard shooting.
4 How do you know it was the Serbian police or army?
5 A. Usually the fire shots were heard every night, but the 1st of
6 April is a night I will never forget in my whole life. It was the most
7 terrible night. The police surrounded, encircled all the neighbourhood
8 and started to kill and set fire to the houses. We changed our place. We
9 went to some other neighbours, but there was no other place we could go
10 because we were surrounded by the police. So we found shelter in one of
11 the houses of the neighbourhood where there were many other people,
12 about -- over 100, who came from other parts of the neighbourhood that --
13 whose houses were set fire to. So they found shelter in this very house
14 that I am talking about.
15 Since we were close by to the street, I saw fire brigade coming,
16 driving by, going to the houses on fire. Then on the next day, I found
17 out that this truck protected a house of a Serbian inhabitant not to be
18 burnt as a result of a burning house of an Albanian citizen that was close
19 by to this house of the Serb. This is what the witnesses told me on the
20 next day.
21 Q. Thank you.
22 A. Please, this night, I have to tell you that more than 20 Albanians
23 were killed in the cellar of a house. Only a young girl managed to
24 escape. She asked for assistance, but there was nobody to give her any
25 assistance, and she also was burned in the fire.
Page 1460
1 Q. How do you know that 20 Albanians were killed? Who told you?
2 A. I found out on the next day from the people who withdrew from this
3 neighbourhood, and they had seen many people died. Apart from -- in
4 addition to this 20 that I'm talking about, they told me that they had
5 left many people behind because they had to flee in a hurry. They didn't
6 have time to see what was happening, you know. And they were told to go
7 to Albania because that was not their place, they were told.
8 Q. Did there come a time where you left again the house of your
9 sister?
10 A. This happened on the 2nd of April when in the yard of my home, of
11 my house, I saw many Albanians had gathered there, and together we were
12 discussing what to do. And then we heard that we had to organise to go to
13 Albania, because we heard the police saying on that very day when they
14 were driving out people from their own homes to flee these houses and go
15 to Albania. This is what they were told.
16 Q. So did you -- did you leave the house?
17 A. We left our house and went to a square. Then we lined up and
18 found about 500 people who did not have cars. We had our own cars. And
19 there was a bus there, the bus which couldn't take more than 60 people.
20 So the remainder left in the direction of Qafe e Prushit border
21 checkpoint, in the direction of Albania
22 Q. I'll just interrupt you. You gathered in this square. How many
23 people, approximately, you saw in this square?
24 A. At that moment, I think that there were about 500 people there.
25 Q. And did you see police or army at that moment at that place?
Page 1461
1 A. Yes, I did. I saw policemen who all the time that we were staying
2 there were keeping vigil and looking what was happening, looking at us, at
3 our cars.
4 Q. So what - you and the crowd of 500 people, what did you do?
5 A. The people started to move in the direction of the border. Many
6 of them were old people, women who could not walk. Some were -- were
7 carrying their family members on carts. Some were sick. It was really a
8 very horrible sight, very sad sight to see. And then even -- then after
9 them, we too started to move in our cars towards the direction of Prizren.
10 Q. Do you know if the police around that time do anything? Did they
11 help the people or did they do anything?
12 A. No. Nobody offered the people any help because they were in their
13 cars and only looked at what was happening. They either patrolled or just
14 stopped and looked at what was happening from their cars.
15 Q. Do you remember passing any checkpoint?
16 A. The first checkpoint, I remember it was about three kilometres
17 away from the city at the place called Ura e Terzive where we were obliged
18 to stop because the Serbian police asked us to. They asked to us hand
19 over to them all our IDs, passports we had with us.
20 Q. And did you do that?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did they tell you why they were doing that?
23 A. I remember that when I asked why the police were taking this,
24 because I needed this document, he told me that, "There is no reason why
25 you need it. There's no reason why you should have this document -- why
Page 1462
1 you should keep this document." And then he told me not to say anything
2 else. And then we went on to Prizren.
3 Q. And from Prizren, where did you go?
4 A. In Prizren, we came across a second checkpoint at which there were
5 several policemen, and they pointed us with their hands towards Albania.
6 Q. Were you asked at any time before crossing the border to show
7 documents?
8 A. At the border point, when we arrived, they -- the soldiers asked
9 us for identity documents, but of course we didn't have any because it had
10 been taken by the police before. And they -- and we told him -- we told
11 the soldier that all our documents had been taken by the Serbian police
12 and we didn't have any more, and he smiled and laughed at us because he
13 knew this, but he wanted to abuse the population. And he said that it's
14 not true that they've taken them and, "You just don't want to hand them
15 over." And we said, "It's true. Our documents have been taken." And
16 then the soldiers started to take the licence plates from the vehicles.
17 Q. Mr. Pruthi, who were at the border? You said soldiers and
18 police. Who was asking for the documents?
19 A. They were soldiers, soldiers.
20 Q. Were the police present there as well?
21 A. They didn't have police uniforms.
22 Q. Can you describe the soldiers, the uniform that the soldiers were
23 using?
24 A. It was a green uniform, camouflage.
25 Q. Was it different or similar to the one that you have already
Page 1463
1 identified?
2 A. It was the same.
3 Q. Did you or the others ever receive back your documents?
4 A. Never.
5 Q. When did you return to Kosovo?
6 A. I returned on the 16th of June, 1999
7 Q. Was your house in the same way as when you left?
8 A. Of course my house was not the same as it had been. The Serbian
9 army had been stationed in my house for three weeks and they had destroyed
10 everything.
11 Q. How do you know that?
12 A. In my neighbourhood, there were three or four families who
13 remained there the entire war.
14 Q. Were they Albanians?
15 A. Yes, they were Albanians. But also I knew from the things that
16 the army had left behind.
17 Q. Mr. Pruthi, why did you decide to leave your town and Kosovo?
18 A. I decided to leave the city and to leave Kosova because I saw with
19 my own eyes people killed. I saw horror, fire. I heard from other people
20 the most terrible stories of what they had experienced in their own homes,
21 so I decided to leave Kosova and to save the lives of my children.
22 Q. And who was causing this terror?
23 A. I believe that this terror was caused by the Serbian army and
24 police.
25 Q. Thank you.
Page 1464
1 MS. ROMANO: No more questions, Your Honour.
2 JUDGE MAY: Yes, Mr. Milosevic.
3 Cross-examined by Mr. Milosevic:
4 Q. [Interpretation] You said that you had lost your job when the
5 Commercial Court in Djakovica in 1991 was dissolved.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Do you know why a court is dissolved? You're a lawyer. When
8 something like this happens, do you know why it happens?
9 A. I know.
10 Q. Well, why was the court dissolved, then?
11 A. There was no reason for the abolition of this court, because I
12 said in my evidence, it happened when -- it happened at a time when a
13 commission of the ministry had expressed the highest appreciation for the
14 work of this court.
15 Q. In that decision taken by the Assembly to abolish the court, was
16 there no reason given, or were there reasons given for this?
17 A. The reasons given at the time were not correct.
18 Q. And what were those reasons that were stipulated?
19 A. I don't remember. I don't remember.
20 Q. Do you know that the Assembly dissolves a court when it ascertains
21 that it is working unlawfully, illegally?
22 A. The court worked in the most legal fashion and enforced the law in
23 the most meticulous way.
24 Q. And who assesses whether the court is working legally or not? You
25 or the Assembly?
Page 1465
1 A. The responsible authority.
2 Q. So parliament; is that it?
3 A. Of course.
4 Q. Was it only the Albanians who were employed in that court, or were
5 there Serbs working in it too?
6 A. There were a few Serbs working there.
7 Q. So it was the Serbs and the Albanians who lost their jobs, in
8 fact; is that right?
9 A. The Serbs had found other jobs, in time. The Serbs found other
10 jobs before the court was abolished.
11 Q. I assume that you found another job too, as far as I can read from
12 these documents here. So there's no difference in that respect, is there?
13 A. After two years. After two years on the streets.
14 Q. You said that the Albanians would apply to have their companies
15 registered.
16 A. On the basis of the law.
17 Q. Of course on the basis of the law. Did Serbs make applications to
18 register their own companies too?
19 A. There were a few applications.
20 Q. So both the Serbs and the Albanians would make their applications
21 to register their companies in the same place; is that right?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. So there wasn't any discrimination there either?
24 A. I'm talking about after the decision made by the Serbian
25 parliament. I'm talking about a discriminatory decision. This was a
Page 1466
1 decision which the Serbian parliament took in a way -- in an unrealistic
2 way.
3 Q. At all events, as a legal man yourself, I assume that you know
4 that the law was the same for Albanians and Serbs alike.
5 A. It was not the same because it wasn't applied in the same way.
6 The law was not applied in the same way.
7 Q. In what sense was it not applied?
8 A. There were cases in which the Albanian applications were turned
9 down, and there's no point in saying it again.
10 Q. I am going back to this question precisely because -- and let me
11 ask you a question, actually, because you're a legal man, you're a lawyer,
12 and you must know the answer to this question. So let me start by asking
13 you a question. You said that, quite simply, the Albanian applications
14 were obstructed, they were placed on ice, if I can put it that way; is
15 that right?
16 A. In what sense?
17 Q. You said -- you described that when Albanians made their
18 applications for their shops, companies, and so on, to register them, that
19 they had to wait a long time and that there was a great deal of
20 obstruction and that they had to wait indefinitely, that the authorities
21 obstructed this.
22 A. At the time I'm talking about, when I was chairman of this court,
23 this was true, because applications were obstructed by the leaders of the
24 Commercial Court in Pristina, that is, after the abolition of the Court in
25 Gjakove. Albanians were obstructed and prevented.
Page 1467
1 Q. So the obstruction consisted in the fact that the applications
2 were kept for a long time and there was no response to them for a long
3 time; is that it?
4 A. Oral replies were given immediately and they were told that they
5 didn't have the right to register. This happened at the Pristina court,
6 and people who submitted applications were mistreated. A very small
7 number did register.
8 Q. You're a lawyer yourself, and you should know, you ought to know
9 that on the basis of that law, if you do not receive registration in a
10 brief period of time, it is considered that the company is registered
11 lawfully. Do you remember provisions stating that?
12 A. If -- if applications are made to authorities, they were obliged
13 to reply in writing and not for the application to be given back
14 immediately into the hand of the applicant without any kind of reply.
15 There were plenty of cases of this kind.
16 Q. I am saying that that is impossible following the letter of the
17 law itself, because in the law it is stated that if there is no reply
18 after a certain deadline, after a short period of time has elapsed, it is
19 considered that the answer and response has been automatically allowed and
20 that the company has been registered. This was a provision to avoid
21 corruption, discrimination, friendly ties with officials. So I'm well
22 aware of provisions of this kind.
23 Is that right or is it not?
24 A. Many impossible things happened in the time I'm talking about.
25 Q. But let's clear this point up. If somebody tables an application,
Page 1468
1 they can send it through the post, for example, send to the court and
2 receives no reply from the court within the deadline prescribed by law,
3 then that piece of paper and his application is considered to have been
4 approved. Is that correct or not?
5 A. It's not true.
6 Q. I claim that it is impossible --
7 A. They didn't act in this way.
8 Q. All right. They didn't have to do anything, and they could not
9 prevent you from registering your company anyway. Is that true or not?
10 A. I can merely stress one detail. The employees of the Secretariat
11 for Internal Affairs came several times to my office to warn me to stop
12 registering property according to Ante Markovic's law. And on the final
13 occasion, these people took all the registration ledgers of the court and
14 took them to the police. This is an unprecedented act in jurisprudence,
15 and this happened in the Gjakove Commercial Court
16 people were registering firms with mixed capital.
17 JUDGE MAY: It's now 11.00. We'll adjourn for half an hour.
18 Mr. Pruthi, could you remember in this adjournment and any others
19 there may be not to speak to any one about your evidence until it's over,
20 and that does include the members of the Prosecution team. Could you be
21 back, please, at half past eleven.
22 --- Recess taken at 11.00 a.m.
23 --- On resuming at 11.30 a.m.
24 JUDGE MAY: Yes, Mr. Milosevic.
25 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.
Page 1469
1 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
2 Q. Since you say that Albanians were obstructed in registering their
3 shops, how can you explain the fact that on the 24th of March, when the
4 war broke out on the territory of the municipality of Djakovica, there
5 were 8.900 privately owned firms owned by Albanians and they were
6 operating normally?
7 A. All these firms were registered before, before this latest change
8 that I mentioned.
9 Q. That is not correct, but for example, from 1994, 861 gasoline
10 stations were registered in Kosovo, that is to say, after all of this that
11 you have said. Only 20 of them were Serb owned out of 861. How do you
12 explain that?
13 A. I don't know that.
14 Q. All right. You said that a law was passed on special trading in
15 immobile property. Do you know that that law pertained to the territory
16 of all of Serbia, including Vojvodina?
17 A. The law on the trading of property on special circumstances, that
18 was not included in that law.
19 Q. You said that the Ministry of Finance had to give approval for the
20 buying and selling of immobile property.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Article 3 of that law says the Ministry of Finance shall approve
23 of the buying and selling of immobile property when it assesses that this
24 does not affect the ethnic pattern of the population or the migration of
25 the members of a certain national or ethnic group and when this buying and
Page 1470
1 selling does not cause anxiety or uncertainty or inequality of right among
2 the citizens of a different ethnic or national group.
3 A. The law was discriminatory because it did not give the right to
4 the owners to transfer his property without prior consent of this
5 ministry.
6 Q. I have precisely been talking about the reasons for that. Since
7 you are talking about discrimination, I should like to remind you of the
8 following: In your municipality, there was one case. For example, in the
9 village of Meca, in the 1980s, Miodrag Saric was killed in his field,
10 before the eyes of his entire family, because he did not want to sell his
11 field. Do you remember that case? At that time, you were still a judge.
12 A. This is not true. I was not a lawyer then, but this is not true.
13 Q. So it is not true that Miodrag Saric was killed in the field in
14 the village of Meca
15 connection with this?
16 JUDGE MAY: That's what the witness says. He says it's not true.
17 Just a moment, Mr. Pruthi. There's no need to answer.
18 He says it's not true.
19 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
20 Q. Very well. Are you aware of other pressure and murders in order
21 to force people to sell their property and leave their property behind?
22 A. No, I don't know of any such cases.
23 Q. Very well. Do you remember, for example, the village of Ratis,
24 which is near you, how many families left that village - that's in your
25 neighbourhood - and left their property because of beatings, rapes,
Page 1471
1 torchings, in the 1980s? Do you remember these examples from the village
2 of Ratis?
3 A. No, I don't remember.
4 Q. And do you remember that in relation to this right exercised by
5 the Ministry of Finance, for which you say that it is discriminatory, the
6 higher-instance authority that decided on this was a commission set up by
7 parliament: Within 30 days you could lodge a complaint with the
8 parliamentary commission. Do you remember that?
9 A. Distinguished Judge, I think such questions are irrelevant. I am
10 not called here to explain the procedure, I think, of the parliament or of
11 the law, Your Honour.
12 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Pruthi, you must allow us to be the Judges of
13 what's relevant and not. You have given evidence about some
14 discriminatory matters, and the accused is entitled to ask some questions
15 about it. Just one moment. You were asked about a commission set up by
16 parliament. Do you remember anything like that? If you don't, just say
17 so.
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The Ministry of Justice of
19 Yugoslavia did set up -- assessed the work of the court, and it said that
20 the work has worked very well, in conformity with Yugoslav laws in force.
21 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]