Programme Number: 081
Week of: Sunday, 1st January 2006
Recording Date: Thursday, 5th January 2006
Topical Issue(s):

• UNHCR Appeals to Egyptian authorities not to deport Sudanese refugees and migrants, following a demonstration which ended with more than 25 people dead and others injured. UNHCR spokeswoman in Cairo, Astrid van Genderen Stort says though life is difficult in Egypt, Sudanese refugees can stay in the country where they have protection.

• The UN Mission in Sierra Leone (UNAMSIL) has completed its task and left the country. Its departure has been followed by the activation of the UN Integrated Office in Sierra Leone (UNIOSIL). The man who saw the conclusion of UNAMSIL, Ambassador Daudi Mwakawago talks about the success of the mission.

Editor / Presenter: Ransford Cline-Thomas
Producer: Derrick Mbatha
Production Assistant: Florence Poblete-Enriquez
Studio Engineer: Julio Martinich
Duration: 15'00"

PRESENTER: This is United Nations Radio in New York.

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PRESENTER: Hello and welcome to UN and Africa, I'm Ransford Cline-Thomas.

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PRESENTER: The year 2006 has not started well for Sudanese refugees, asylum seekers and migrants who wanted to be resettled in a third country. After hundreds of them staged a demonstration for three months, they were forced last Friday to abandon the site where they had camped since September last year and some of them may now be deported to Sudan.

CLIP 1: ASTRID VAN GENDEREN STORT
"We have been trying since the 29th of September to find a peaceful solution to this crisis. We have always appealed to the Egyptian government to take appropriate measures to end the sit in stike in a peaceful manner."

PRESENTER: That was Astrid van Genderen Stort, the spokeswoman for the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in Cairo. More from her in a moment.
Also in this programme, the mandate of the United Nations Mission in Sierra Leone (UNAMSIL) ended last year and a new operation known as the United Nations Integrated Office in Sierra Leone has started. How successful was the mission? Ambassador Daudi Mwakawago was the head of the mission.
"Our troops, apart from just keeping the peace, making sure there is no fighting, have rehabilitated schools, courts, mosques, churches, roads, bridges, police posts and so on. On account of that, the people have seen the peacekeepers in the new light and that makes the success story of UNAMSIL."

PRESENTER: You'll hear more from Ambassador Mwagawago later in the programme.
So, stay tuned to UN and Africa.

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PRESENTER: For three months, Sudanese refugees, asylum seekers and migrants camped at a park near the United Nations Office in the Egyptian capital of Cairo. They were demonstrating against what they regarded as ill-treatment and bad living conditions in Egypt. They wanted the United Nations High refugee agency to resettle them in a third country. The Egyptian authorities watched the situation and let UNHCR deal with the demonstrators. Throughout the demonstration at the Mostafa Mahmoud Park, the UN refugee agency maintained a constant dialogue with the demonstrators in an attempt to find a peaceful resolution of the situation. Conditions worsened at the park as over two-thousand Sudanese continued their demonstration and the situation started to become a public order issue for the Egyptian authorities. Talks between UNHCR and the demonstrators broke down in the third week of December after many of them rejected a deal that had been struck by the agency and the leaders of the protest. Then last Friday, Egyptian authorities deployed the police to forcibly end the demonstration. Using sticks and water canons, the police broke up the demonstration and detained hundreds of the protestors. In the melee, more than twenty people were killed and others injured. On Wednesday there were reports that the authorities would deport more than six hundred Sudanese citizens who, they said were in the country illegally. On the line to Cairo, I spoke to Astrid van Genderen Stort, the spokeswoman for the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, who said the agency is against sending back the refugees to Sudan.
STORT: We don't promote return to Sudan at this stage in time. We facilitated for people that wish to return so we will that people should not be deported, especially those people that are of concern to Sudan should not be deported to a country where they do not want to return because not every place in Sudan is safe yet. Of course there are safe areas and we are repatriating people but we are not promoting it yet.

THOMAS: Well if indeed the Egyptian authorities were to take action and deport these people, what action would UNHCR then take?

STORT: Let's hope that they will not. Obviously the Egyptian government has a responsibility. They have acceded to the 1951 Convention in 1981, which means they have a basic responsibility to refugees and people that are of concern to UNHCR and if there are people that are of concern and that the Egyptian authorities say they have committed a crime, then these people should be subject to a due process of law.

THOMAS: Astrid, who are these refugees and what precisely do they want?

STORT: The people that have been demonstrating at the square, a lot of them have already been living for a long time in Cairo. They say that their living conditions were difficult in Cairo and they felt that they were discriminated against. Now, to put it in a context, Egypt has always had very good relations with Sudan and more than two even three million Sudanese are living in Egypt. Of these two three million, only 24,000 are registered with UNHCR. A lot of them have been saying we just want to go to another country. We want mass resettlement for the whole group. Some of them are rejected cases that did undergo status determination but didn't get a refugee status. Others are. Part of them can at a certain point return to Sudan. Now to resettle them to another country is not a solution and moreover is not in the hands of UNHCR is really in the hands of the resettlement countries. So they wanted something that was on a large scale impossible because we are still continuing on a case by case basis for those cases, for example from Darfur, to register them as refugees with the possibility maybe to get resettled. However, whatever else we offered them they didn't agree to and they just wanted mass resettlement or stay on the square for ever.

THOMAS: And what exactly are the chances of UNHCR being able to arrange for those who want to be resettled in third countries for you to be able to do so?

STORT: UNHCR can do status determination, decide that the person is a refugee who is fearing prosecution in his country of origin, cannot return to his country. We can register him as a refugee and promote him for resettlement. But at the end of the day it is really at the discretion of the resettlement country. If the U.S. or countries in Europe decide that this person is really someone who faces prosecution and is in urgent need of resettlement because he cannot stay anymore in the country asylum, which is Egypt, then the person can get resettlement, but that's not up to UNHCR to decide, that's up to the country. And the case is, really even though life is very very difficult in Egypt for a lot of people, they still can stay here, can get a renewable visa, can get basic services. So there is, not ideal, but there is basic protection in this country which is not the case for a lot of refugees in other countries in the world.

THOMAS: Astrid, last week when the Egyptian authorities rounded up the refugees in that violent operation leading to the deaths of roughly twenty people, others were wounded and still others were detained, did UNHCR try to intervene to protect them?

STORT: Well, on the square on Thursday to Friday night it was impossible for us to intervene because there was a massive crowd of police and we really couldn't do anything at point couldn't do anything. We have been trying since the 29th of September to find a peaceful solution to this crisis. We have always appealed to the Egyptian government to take appropriate measures to end the sit-in strike in a peaceful manner. And we've constantly kept the Egyptian authorities informed about our efforts and we have worked together with the Egyptian authorities and Sudanese authorities and Sudanese opposition and Sudanese personalities and Egyptian personalities, and mediators and NGOs, a lot of people to try to find a peaceful solution. We never asked for an aggressive police intervention and I think also the Egyptian authorities have tried where they could have dispersed the demonstration on the 29th of September directly as they would normally do, to tolerate or they have tolerated this sit-in strike and tried to find a solution through peaceful means.

THOMAS: And don't you think there are those who might try to blame UNHCR for the tragedy?

STORT: I am sure there are those who try to blame. The past days everyone has been trying to blame everyone. We at UNHCR can at this point in time not point any finger at anyone. It is very very sad that twenty-seven or maybe twenty-eight people died in this tragic event. We can say what we have done and we can once again maybe learn lessons and even say afterwards we could have done more even though I really sincerely believe that we tried to do everything in our power and tried to involve as many many different parties as possible. We even reached an agreement with the demonstrators but the demonstrators couldn't even convince their own people to live the square anymore even though they had signed the agreement

THOMAS: So what happens next now?

STORT: Well at the moment we are dealing with the day-to-day situation. We have been providing medical care, blankets, counselling directly and through partners that have been extremely helpful in this crisis situation. We have also been providing financial assistance to people that were at the square and lost their belongings. A lot of the people, as I mentioned before had been living in Cairo for a long time. Some had arrived recently. Some people had given up their housing, or maybe the majority had. When the demonstration started going on, they thought as long we stand at the square we would probably be going to another country so why keep it. So we are trying to help these people get reintegrated into the society.

PRESENTER: Astrid van Genderen Stort, the spokeswoman for the UN refugee agency in Cairo.

STING/JINGLE: UN AND AFRICA THEME

PRESENTER: And now turning to West Africa, the good news is; mission accomplished for UNAMSIL, the United Nations Mission in Sierra Leone. Established by the Security Council in 1999, in the wake of a civil war that killed over seventy thousand people and maimed many more, UNAMSIL is considered one of the United Nations' most visible successes. That mission has now been replaced by a United Nations Office that will support the government's efforts to maintain peace and security, consolidate state authority, promote good governance, human rights and address a host of other issues. The man who oversaw the UNAMSIL mission is Ambassador Daudi Mwagawago of Tanzania. UN Radio's Maha Fayek spoke with the Ambassador about some of the mission's accomplishments.
MWAGAWAGO: Firstly in terms of travel you can go anywhere in the country anytime. There are no restricted areas. It's up to you. There are no gangs harassing the people or creating havoc. Our troops, apart from just keeping the peace, making sure there is no fighting, they have done humanitarian work, what we call quick impact projects. They have rehabilitated schools, courts, mosques, churches, roads, bridges, police posts and so on. On account of that, the people have seen the peacekeepers in a new light and that makes the success story of UNAMSIL.

FAYEK: In 1999 when the mission was created, it was created with that mandate of helping and supporting the transitional government implementing the peace agreement, disarming, demobilizing the ex-combatants. Then we went through an election process in 2002. What is the difference between that transitional period and the post election period?

MWAGAWAGO: I am glad you have made reference to that. The traditional approach to peacekeeping has always been once the hostilities have ceased, there is a peace agreement, you go to elections. After elections you say the work is done. That is not the story of Sierra Leone. After the elections the work began. So we have to sit together and say what are the issues. Fortunately the Council identified benchmarks and those governed our operations.

FAYEK: What were the benchmarks?

MWAGAWAGO: First was to ensure the extension of government authority throughout the land. That has been achieved. Secondly to strengthen the security sector.

FAYEK: You mentioned earlier that one of the big accomplishments of this mission is that they did not take care only of peacekeeping and bringing back the security to the country, but there was a whole chapter regarding development, right? How come did you train the police and you did not make follow up to make sure that the police officers are taken care of properly?

MWAGAWAGO: That is another wing. UNAMSIL, if it wanted to take everything would not be UNAMSIL, would be something else. We deal with peacekeeping and that's what we have done. The extension of humanitarian work, not the payment of salaries.

FAYEK: Lets talk a little about the army, and this is a very important component. How did you recruit the army?

MWAGAWAGO: The training of the army is done by IMAT, International Training Assistance Mission set up by the United Kingdom. They set up the criteria, but what I know, after the Lome Agreement the rebel army was integrated into the armed forces. So one of the benchmarks in the security sector is to retrench the army to a level which is commensurate with the resources and the size of the country because with the integration, the army came up to 14,500. That was too big for Sierra Leone. The first objective was to make it smaller to 10,500 by 2007. Now, they are thinking of even going lower than that.

FAYEK: What is the situation on the border?

MWAGAWAGO: I can vouch they are secure.

PRESENTER: That was Ambassador Daudi Mwagawago who headed the United Nations
Mission in Sierra Leone which ended last year.

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PRESENTER: And that's all for this edition of UN and Africa. Our producer was Derrick Mbatha, Production Assistant was Beng Poblete-Enriquez and our engineer was Julio Martinich. And from me Ransford Cline-Thomas bye for now.

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