Press conference by UN Under-Secretary-General for Peace and Security, Mr. Lakhdar Brahimi, head of fact finding mission to Iraq - Baghdad, Iraq

13 February

MR. BRAHIMI: (Speaks in Arabic.) Good afternoon.

(English) Good afternoon, everyone. I don't think I have much to say by way of introduction, except that this has been a very, very busy week for us. We've met a very large number of people in Iraq -- still, by far, not enough -- would have liked to see many, many more. Unfortunately, there is only 24 hours in a day.

I think you know the reason why we are here. A request has been made by the Governing Council, the CPA and a lot of others that the United Nations helps find a way of moving forward the political process in Iraq. And the secretary-general has accepted and asked us, myself and five other colleagues, to come to Iraq and talk to people here and find out what the facts were, so that he can determine how best the U.N. can help, if the U.N. Can do so.

I think that we have gathered enough facts. On the technical side, my colleague Carina Perelli will stay a couple of days longer, after we leave, to complete the technical data, collect the technical data, and also complete some discussions with some people in the university and political parties and organizations and elsewhere.

By the middle of next week, we'll be in New York, and we hope we'll be in a position to tell the secretary-general what we have found out. And I hope that soon after that he will be able to communicate his advice to the parties here, the Governing Council and the CPA.

So this is the -- what -- I mean, by way of introduction. Yes?

QUESTION: (In Arabic, inaudible)

MR. BRAHIMI: (In Arabic.) ‘Samahet El-Sayyid’ (Ayatollah Sistani) is a personality that deserves respect and appreciation, it was a source of great pleasure for me to meet him, we sat and talked for two and a half hours. I think that certainly the discussion was very useful for me, and I think for him as well. The demands of the Iraqi street for elections is a legitimate one, but the Iraqi street should be aware of the fact that elections are a complex operation and that the benefits that the Iraqi street want will not be fulfilled unless they are well- prepared and held at the right time, so that everyone accepts the results, and so that holding the elections - at the wrong time and without the proper preparation - will not lead to divisions and quarrels and, God forbid, worse than that.

QUESTION: (In Arabic, inaudible)

MR. BRAHIMI: (In Arabic.) I don’t know what you heard yesterday but what I said yesterday is what I said today, and that is that I agree with “Samahit El Sayyid” Aly Al-Sistani that elections are the best way to form a government and I added that El-Sayyid Sistani agrees with me that peparation for these elections should be at the required standard. That is what I said today, not one word has changed.

QUESTION: Mariam al-Attia (sp), Radio Sawa.

MR. BRAHIMI: Radio??

QUESTION: Sawa.

FAWZI: Sawa.

QUESTION: Sawa. (In Arabic, inaudible)

MR. BRAHIMI: (In Arabic.) I think that ‘Samahit El Sayyid’ always stresses that he is not a politician, and that he is a religious reference, and that he is not committed to any political line of any of the parties, and I believe that is what you heard and I believe that is his position.

FAWZI: The gentleman in -- yes, with your hand up. You, sir, in the blue shirt.

QUESTION: (In Arabic.) Mohamed Al Hayat-LBC. Some have described your mission as a failure and others have said it has achieved relative success. What is your comment and when you return to New York you may be subject to American pressure. How will you deal with such pressure…?

MR. BRAHIMI: (In Arabic.) Well, that is a long lecture, not a question. I believe that our visit was very successful, as the Secretary-General assigned us to gather information, to conduct fact-finding, and that is what we did and I believe we did so well. As for what the press says, whether in Washington or Beirut or London, well, that is it’s business.

FAWZI: (Off mike.) Just a second. Go ahead Miryam

QUESTION: (Off mike) (Miryam, AP) -- did Ayatollah Sistani signal that he would agree to holding election after turning sovereignty -- after June 30th? And if so, who would sovereignty be turned over to; to the Governing Council or what? Thank you.

MR. BRAHIMI: I think that these two issues are certainly not unconnected, but they are separate. I think that all Iraqis would like sovereignty to return earlier rather than later, and that Ayatollah Sistani shares this view with everybody else. It's another issue of organizing elections.

And a third issue, if you like, is to whom sovereignty is going to be handed over. I think discussions are still going on on this third issue. And he has his views, who I'm sure he would express them much better than I can on his behalf. I don't think a decision has been taken on that issue. That is still being discussed.

We are now working on what are the requirements, the minimum requirements for a reasonably credible election. I think we agree with everybody here that I think -- I hope that soon Iraq would be able to organize perfectly -- perfect elections, but I think most Iraqis will settle with a little less than that, but not too much less, because otherwise the election would not be credible.

FAWZI: The gentleman in the first row with the white suit.

QUESTION: (In Arabic.) inaudible …you said the timing…

MR. BRAHIMI: Yes.

QUESTION: (Continuing in Arabic.) if the time is not appropriate…

MR. BRAHIMI: (In Arabic.) Why do you assume that the UN will set an timing that is inappropriate?

QUESTION: (Continuing in Arabic.) inaudible

MR. BRAHIMI: (In Arabic.) The United Nations will propose, as a result of studying the needs for elections, what is the timing that the elections can be held. But it is the Iraqi officials who will, who will take their own responsibility. Otherwise, insha Allah, you are not one of those who are looking for excuses to achieve objectives, to achieve their own ends. So, I believe, but, you raised the issue of security. The issue of security is very important.

But we also hope that some people, also, will not use the excuse of security for objectives that are not connected to the welfare of the Iraqi people.

FAWZI: The lady in the third row.

QUESTION: Barbara Plett from the BBC. Just to clarify, are you saying that elections will take place after the hand-over of sovereignty? And if so, what is your impression of the earliest point that they could be held?

MR. BRAHIMI: I'm not saying that. I think the secretary-general will say that.

QUESTION: What is your impression so far from the Iraqis you've spoken to?

MR. BRAHIMI: My -- yeah, you know, I think -- I don't want to have impressions. We are, as I said, still completing our data. What I think we have agreed to with everybody -- what I think everybody has agreed to is that, elections are terribly important, but holding reasonably credible elections is also extremely important, and that the date of the elections have got to be consistent with this requirement. I'm sorry I can't be more specific than that because, you know, the situation is still not yet -- I mean, we haven't completed our work.

Thank you.

FAWZI: The gentleman in the back with the white shirt, please. Yes, go ahead.

QUESTION: -- Sho Beppu (ph) from NHK TV Japan. Nice to see you again after two years ago in Kabul. Mr. Sistani, of course everyone understands of the importance of the elections as soon as possible, but latter part of his request was to do it before June 16. Did he agree to drop that part of request, and did he accept that it could be later than that date?

MR. BRAHIMI: I think we are -- yes, go ahead.

QUESTION: And the second question is, after your being here, after seeing the security situation here, what is impression that the U.N. -- the expatriate staff could come back to here? When do you think you are able to come back here?

MR. BRAHIMI: Yeah. On the first one, I think that Ayatollah Sistani I think agrees with me that the -- and I think this probably was his view all along -- that preparing correctly elections is important. And I think we have agreed that we must be certain that these elections are -- we have also, I think -- he and I also agree that it is the Government that comes out of the ballot box that is going to take the important decisions for the future of Iraq. About the dates, you know, again, you must ask him.

QUESTION: Second question --

MR. BRAHIMI: And second question about security and the United Nations. Yes, you know, the 19th of August is something many of us will never forget, not only people like Ahmad (Fawzi) who were here, but even those of us who were not. The Secretary-General -- you might have seen the reports that have been published following the 19th of August attack on the United Nations -- I think demand that some important security measures must be in place for the U.N. to be able to come back. We've been discussing with the Governing Council, with the CPA, this issue. They are looking into it, and they will be coming back to us. Because we want to come back; the Secretary-General would like to resume as many of our activities as possible. So do everybody else in this country, from what I heard. But I think security is important. And for the moment, I think a lot of work needs to be done.

QUESTION: (In Arabic.) inaudible “Echo of Baghdah”

MR. BRAHIMI: (In Arabic.) I think I answered that question five or six times and now I will answer it for the seventh time. Elections should be held at the right time and after completing the necessary arrangements.

FAWZI: Could I make an appeal, please? One question each, please. (Repeats in Arabic.)

QUESTION: (In Arabic.) inaudible. You met political and religious personalities…did you find anyone who…willing to listen…or..

MR. BRAHIMI: (In Arabic.) This and that. I mean, there are those who are clinging to their opinion, there are those who are prepared, but my feeling is that there is acknowledgement that opinions vary, and there is, I mean the simple fact that the UN has been asked to help find a solution that is acceptable to all shows that there is a willingness on the part of many of not of all, to find a compromise solution that is acceptable to everyone, and serves the interests of Iraq. That is what is important.

QUESTION: (In Arabic.) inaudible. Kuwait news Agency. Neighbouring countries…? And will..the UN…be present when sovereignty is transferred as it was when Sergio (Vieira) de Mello was…?

MR. BRAHIMI: (In Arabic.) As for your second question, our hope, certainly, is that we be present in Iraq at all stages of this political process in the future, insha Allah (God willing). I don’t know what you mean by your first question, but our hope is that the neighbouring countries understand, all of them, and what we hear from them is a good sign of that, that they understand that Iraqis do not welcome interference in their affairs, and that the assistance of neighbours is required, but intereference is not wanted.

FAWZI: Rajiv.

QUESTION: Mr. Brahimi, Rajiv Chandrasekaran. I'm from The Washington Post. During your time here, have you come to any conclusions as to which group or to whom sovereignty should revert between June 30th and whenever elections can be held? This is the -- you know, the third issue that you referred to a second ago. You obviously met with the Governing Council today. Some members there feel that they should receive the sovereignty. The CPA has a plan to conduct caucuses. What sort of preliminary conclusions are you going to back to New York with, at this point?

MR. BRAHIMI: I think the only thing I know is that we are talking about something provisional, something that is not going to last very long, something that is not going to have very extensive powers. But I'm afraid that I haven't come to any conclusions there; whereas I think we have made a lot of work on the question of elections, and as I think I told you, before a week or 10 days, we will be able to give a view on that.

On the authority that will receive the sovereignty on the 30th of June, discussions are still going on and the consensus is not there yet.

STAFF: The lady in the back, Liz, go ahead.

QUESTION: Yes, Elizabeth Farmer, CBS News. This is a little bit of a follow up question. The plan as it was originally suggested when the transfer of power was set up, which is quite a complicated formula of appointments through regional councils (on ?). Have you pretty much decided that's a non-starter?

MR. BRAHIMI: You know, we don't decide those things. But I think the people who put it together realize that it needs at the very least to be improved considerably. And I think they have said publicly that they are very, very open to looking to other alternatives.

QUESTION: How do you think it should be improved? How?

MR. BRAHIMI: Yeah, I don't know.

FAWZI: Thank you.

QUESTION: (In Arabic.) The timing of the transfer of sovereignty, is there any change in the date?

MR. BRAHIMI: (In Arabic.) No, there is no change. No one suggested a change in that date.

QUESTION: (In Arabic.) inaudible, on elections…

MR. BRAHIMI: (In Arabic.) Well, I think that discussions are about general elections, then, I think the thing that became clear during this week is that elections are part of a comprehensive political process and are not an independent process and isolated from everything else. There fore, these elections should come at the appropriate time, not sooner and not later.

FAWZI: Lady in the white T-shirt there on the right. You had your hand up. Go ahead.

QUESTION: (Name inaudible) -- from the BBC. If the caucus system of choosing a new government is abandoned, what system will you be selecting?

MR. BRAHIMI: I don't know. I think, you know, it's not a question of selecting a system, it is question of -- this is a political issue that needs a little bit more discussion between the political parties.

QUESTION: (In Arabic.) inaudible, general elections need a general census…need to be well prepqared…do we understand from that that elections cannot be held before 30 June?

MR. BRAHIMI: (In Arabic.) I did not say anything like that,

QUESTION: (Continuing in Arabic.) I am asking..

MR. BRAHIMI: (In Arabic.) You may well ask. If you mean a general census, then that takes five years. Therefore that is not what is required…

QUESTION: (Continuing in Arabic.)…prepare well before conducting elections, does this mean they cannot be held before 30 June?

MR. BRAHIMI: (Arabic) We will answer your question next week insha Alla (God willing).

QUESTION: Mr. Brahimi, Jim Sciutto with ABC-News. Could you describe for us what, exactly, a "reasonably credible election" is? It sounds like that involves some sacrifice, whether it's proceeding without a true census, proceeding without full suffrage. A reasonably credible election sounds like a not-fully credible election. So can you tell us what you're talking about?

MR. BRAHIMI: I'm afraid I can't. And it will take about three hours to describe that process to you. So I'm sure you'll forgive me if I don't do that now.

QUESTION: Well, I think in the simplest terms, Iraqis deserve some description of what they should expect in terms of an election.

MR. BRAHIMI: I'm afraid I can't do it now.

QUESTION: (In Arabic.) Will you be presenting alternative proposals for conducting elections?

MR. BRAHIMI: (In Arabic.) We will present realistic proposals, isha Allah (God willing), within days.

MR. BRAHIMI: Where are you? Ah, okay.

QUESTION: (In Arabic.) inaudbile

MR. BRAHIMI: (In Arabic.) What are you asking?

QUESTION: (Continuing in Arabic.) inaudible…the electoral experts with you this week…

MR. BRAHIMI: (In Arabic.) They contacted, first of all they attended with us a very large part of the meetings because the political discussion are important to know the overall framework within which talks are taking place about whether to have elections or not. Secondly, I think I mentioned at the beginning of (this press conference)that they met with a number of experts from different Ministries, for example there were people from the Ministries of Planning, of Trade, of the Interior, from the Ministry of Education and from the Universities, people who have undertaken studies, either on their own initiative or on behalf of parties or movements and different parties, and, they have views, some say it is possible to hold elections before the end of Huzayran (June) and others who say differently, and believe that the talks that our technical colleagues have held have helped a great deal in bringing opinions closer between those parties. And, here, the optimism of which I speak, is that, the (Iraqis) will reach agreement on one opinion regarding elections and that this will happen soon.

FAWZI: The lady in black in the back row-- (off mike).

QUESTION: Deborah Amos, National Public Radio. I have a large question and a small question.

MR. BRAHIMI: My goodness.

QUESTION: Will the United Nations --

MR. BRAHIMI: I beg your pardon?

QUESTION: Will the United Nations now be involved every step of the way as we go from here to the elections?

And two, did the Sunni group, the clerics that you met last night, are they willing, this new political organization, are they willing to participate and come either into the Governing Council or take a role between now and the time of the elections?

MR. BRAHIMI: Look, from -- to the first question, yes, I think so, although my own -- you know, what I can -- I am responsible only for this week. But I think that the United Nations would like to be present in every step of the way from now on.

Your second question; yes, I think the Sunni group that we met yesterday are very eager to participate. I think it's no secret that -- I know that after we left them they went to a press conference, and I believe they must have said that they don't believe that elections can be held before the 30th of June. But they -- you know, like everybody else, they are not against the principle of elections.

FAWZI: The gentleman in the blue shirt.

QUESTION: (Name inaudible) -- Corriere Della Sera from Italy. Good afternoon, Mr. Brahimi.

MR. BRAHIMI: Good afternoon to you. I hope I'll be better this time than last time we spoke.

QUESTION: Than before. Yes. I hope so, yes.

Just a short question. Is there still a possibility the U.N. will not come back to this country after -- when you come back to the secretary-general, would you -- is it possible that he will say no after he hears what you have to say? And secondly, do you see any real danger of a civil war in this country?

MR. BRAHIMI: Yeah, it's a very short question and a very simple problem that you are asking. And two questions, actually.

So the first one, I don't think that the Secretary-General will say that we don't want to go back to Iraq. The secretary-general would say that we would like to have, as early as possible, the conditions that will allow us to come back and develop to the full possible extent our activities in Iraq.

On your second question -- and I don't know whether you asked it seriously or not -- I hope that -- I think -- I told the Governing Council this morning that I am -- from what I hear, I am very optimistic because everybody seems to be conscious that the country is in trouble, that there are problems, difficulties, and everybody says that they would like to reach a consensus, and so on.

But I also said that I am a little bit disturbed and I am a little bit uneasy because there are very, very serious dangers. And I have appealed to them, and through this press conference today I would like to appeal to every Iraqi in every part of Iraq to be conscious of the fact that civil wars are not started by people through a decision that, you know, tomorrow we are going to start a civil war. Civil wars happen because people are reckless, because people are selfish, because groups think more of themselves than they do of the benefit of their country. I have said also to my friends in the Governing Council and all the people I have met. I was involved a little bit in Lebanon. If there is one country in this part of the world that nobody ever thought would be the theatre of a civil war, it is Lebanon, and yet we have seen what happened. I myself come from a country where, again, nobody thought that there would be a civil war and there was one. So I have appealed to the -- everybody I have seen to be careful.

FAWZI: This gentleman has been very patient. Please go ahead.

QUESTION: Eddie Sanders from the L.A. Times. You talked about some of the minimum requirements needed before elections. Could you give us an idea of what are the key obstacles, the things that need to be done in Iraq today before you could have elections, for example?

MR. BRAHIMI: Before you have elections?

QUESTION: Before you have elections. And how would you get around things like a voter roll and some of those issues that people have said?

MR. BRAHIMI: You see, the most important factor that you need to satisfy before you start talking about dates for an election is the legal framework. You know, there are some very simple questions that people don't seem to think of. Whom do you want to elect? What kind of electoral system do you want? What kind of administrative system do you have? I mean, are the district boundaries settled, there's no problem there? Do you want to have a, you know, British system first-past-the-post? Continental European system? What kind of system do you want? This has to be -- these are the ABC that you need to have there.

And there is, you know, a host of other issues that have been discussed. The role -- people say that the ration cards are a good enough system. Great. It needs to be looked at. How long will it take to look at that system and ascertain what is being said, that it is a good system? How do you protect the system against fraud? Because at the same time, it is said that there is -- there was a lot of fraudulent cards, that there are a lot of people who didn't have that -- did not have these cards. How long does it take to issue cards to those who do not have -- and make sure that those fraudulent cards are not going around?

So these are just some of the issues that need to be addressed in this election, as in any other.

FAWZI: Mr. Brahimi, if I may just say that we have about six or seven minutes left, and I have 10 requests to ask you questions. If I may ask you, please, to make your questions short --

MR. BRAHIMI: And I make my answers short! That's his -- that's what he's meaning. That's what he's --

FAWZI: I can't tell you that! And limit yourselves, please, to one question. We'll go back to the left side of the room now, the gentleman -- (speaks in Arabic, the gentleman in the white shirt, please go ahead).

QUESTION: In Arabic, inaudible, about the security situation.

MR. BRAHIMI: (Arabic) Of course, I mean, I am fortunate, from the personal point view, that I was protected and I still am, [very heavy protection], and this security is not available to ordinary Iraqis. And I have not moved around enough to be able to form an opinion other than the opinion that hear from you, and from people in Iraq, and I think that the people in Iraq say that there are areas where security is not available, in a way that is cause for concern. There are those who say, who concentrate on the fact that there are wide areas that are calm at the moment, and that those pockets that are unstable and in which there is no security, will be sorted out soon. But, without doubt, the security situation is unstable and the number of victims that one hears about in your papers every day is unfortunate and a cause for concern.

FAWZI: The gentleman in the white shirt, please, go ahead.

QUESTION: In Arabic, inaudible,

BRAHIMI: (Arabic) That is a personal question that is of no use. I am here, and it is a great honour that I have been given this assignment and I hope I will be able to carry it out in a way that my satisfies my conscience and satisfies the people in Iraq.

QUESTION: In Arabic, inaudible, about what would happen if the UN proposals were not accepted by the Governing Council, and how that would affect the future of the UN in Iraq.

BRAHIMI: (Arabic) I think that is not [feasible], insha Allah the proposals that the Secretary-General will submit will be acceptable and constructive and useful to the people of Iraq.

QUESTION: In Arabic, about the fact that the UN works for peace in difficult situations around the world, and how do you explain to the Iraqis the closure of your offices until now, and are you satisfied with your defeat…?

BRAHIMI: (Arabic) That is a question that I had better not describe with what comes to my mind. Some of us were killed, and they were guilty of nothing other than that they were trying to serve the people of Iraq. If you believe that the UN has had shortcomings and has shortcomings, then [that’s your opinon].

QUESTION: In Arabic. Raed El-Azawi, BBC Arabic. Inaudible.

BRAHIMI: (Arabic) I am very sorry that the answers I have given, I know that I have not answered all your questions. The reason is that we have not completed our work. And I do not want to pre-empt, really, the decision that the Secretary-General will make based upon the complete information that we will present him with in the middle of next week. What I can say only is that I am optimistic, that what I heard and saw during my contacts in this country, [bodes well] for us, that we will reach proposals that reflect the desire of people here for a solution that is acceptable to all regarding elections.

QUESTION: In Arabic. Al-Nahar. There are 4 million Iraqis in Exile…what will be the role of the UN regarding the participation of those exiles in the elections?

BRAHIMI: (Arabic) This issue has been presented to us more than once. This, too, is one of the questions that are under discussion. And there are political decisions that need to be taken. You have not only those in exile, [but also] those whose nationality has been withdrawn. How, what are the procedures to restore nationality to them? Or, and this is very possible, it might be said that it will not be possible, very regrettably, to resolve all these problems, before these first elections can be held. There are many problems in Iraq, that will not be solved. There are political decision that must be taken in this regard. This is a fundamental issue, if only from the human rights perspective, with which we are basically concerned and with which enjoys particular attention from us and from the people in Iraq.

QUESTION: In Arabic, inaudible, have you had contacts with the CPA during the course of your visit…

BRAHIMI: (Arabic) Yes, of course, we had contacts with the officials [of the CPA]. They are the rulers of the country now, the country is occupied and they are responsible, they are the [supreme] authority. I think that you have heard, in Washington and in Baghdad, many statements that they shared in the request to the United Nations that it assist in the matter, and that they will accept the opinion of the UN, and that is what was reiterated to us during our stay.

QUESTION: In Arabic, inaudible, about the Constitution.

BRAHIMI: (Arabic) I think that the Secretay-General has said more than once that the UN has also had experience in the matter of drafting constitutions, but I think that the tendency is that a committee be given the responsibility of drafting the constitution. So, when we reach that stage, and we may have an opinion and some proposals in this regard, from beginning to end.

FAWZI: Last question.

QUESTION: Julia Buckley (sp), NPR. Are elections contingent on a U.N. Presence?

MR. BRAHIMI: I think, in the absolute, not necessarily.

QUESTION: But did the parties tell you they wanted to have U.N. observers here for the elections to be legitimate?

MR. BRAHIMI: Very much so. Very much. Very, very much. Very much so. I think that -- I doubt whether we have met anybody who didn't say that they wanted a prominent role for the United Nations in every stage of the electoral process.

Thank you very, very much indeed, again, for your patience, and I’m sorry if I didn’t satisfy all your curiosity.

FAWZI: Thank you very much.

MR. BRAHIMI: And I'm sorry if I didn't satisfy all your curiosity. Thank you very much.

QUESTION: Are you leaving today?

FAWZI: I'm sorry. We can't answer that question. Thank you. Please remain seated until the delegation has left the room. Thank you very, very much.